How To Be WellnStrong

59: How to Parent at Your Child's Pace | Dr. Joel Warsh, MD

• Jacqueline Genova • Episode 59

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I’m very excited to welcome back as my guest, Dr. Joel Warsh, the author of the new book, Parenting at Your Child's Pace: The Integrative Pediatrician's Guide to the First Three Years. In this episode, Dr. Warsh and I discuss how to reduce parental stress, how to foster healthy eating habits in children, the impact of technology and screen time on a child’s development, and ways to address childhood anxiety. Dr. Warsh also shares his thoughts on the importance of being "present" with your children, balancing their exposure to various activities without overwhelming them, and how to raise resilient children. Dr. Warsh has been featured in numerous articles, documentaries, and podcasts, and is the founder of the Parenting Masterclass Series Raising Amazing Plus and the supplement line; Tiny Roots Apothecary.

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*Unedited Transcript*
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Jacqueline: [00:00:00] Welcome back for another episode. You're actually the second guest that I've had, come back another time. So super excited for our conversation. And I hear that you have a book coming out in August, right? Parenting at your child's pace.

Dr. Joel Warsh: Yeah, that's correct. And thanks for, for having me back. I'm excited for everything. It's been a lot 

Jacqueline: Is this your first book?

Dr. Joel Warsh: First book yet.

Jacqueline: Wow. Exciting. I know. I feel like, people's first books are like, are like a first child in a way. There's just so many initial steps, so I'm sure it's been a lot for you,

Dr. Joel Warsh: Definitely. It's a, it's a marathon.

Jacqueline: And it navigates the first three years, right?

Dr. Joel Warsh: Correct.

Jacqueline: All right. And how does this book differ from, from other parenting books out there?

Because there are certainly so many, that's a space where I have not yet tapped into at this point in my life, but hopefully one day will.

Dr. Joel Warsh: Yeah. So, I mean, I think for me, the, the biggest things were, I wanted a book that really focuses on decreasing parental stress and also focusing on a balanced perspective [00:01:00] on the main questions that we get, as well as putting in a holistic perspective. A lot of the parenting books, most of the parenting books these days are written by therapists or like, I mean, also like economists or moms, and they don't really, they don't Come from pediatricians, the older books used to, you know, like Dr.

Spock and, and many of the books from back in the day were written by pediatricians, but now a lot of the parenting are more written by, uh, you know, other professionals and, and pediatricians and doctors mainly write like medical books are like, what do you do about cough? What do you do? So, so I, but I think that it's really very important that we have that health perspective, especially given where we are with chronic disease and, and just.

The worsening rates of illness and, and just everything seems to be moving in the wrong direction in terms of our health. And so I thought it was really important to focus on those first few years, get to parents before some of these things pop up and, and bring in that health aspect to a parenting book.

So still talking about a lot of the questions that parents would have, but giving it a more balanced approach and also from a lens of a pediatrician and health perspective.

Jacqueline: I [00:02:00] love that. Yeah. Prevention is, is truly key. And you have this acronym SEEDS, which stands for stress, environment, exercise, diet, and sleep. If you had to prioritize two of those, which ones would they be? Okay.

Dr. Joel Warsh: I would prioritize diet and toxins. I think those are the two biggest factors in chronic disease these days and the most important in terms of making some modifications for our health. I think a lot of our chronic disease these days stems from our poor diets and too many toxins.

Jacqueline: Right, and I feel like we may have touched on this in our first episode, but just as a quick refresher for everyone, what is the ideal diet for a child? We certainly hear a lot about moms and dads making the decision to omit gluten and dairy from the diet to minimize, you know, inflammatory foods. What's what's Dr.

Warsh's take?

Dr. Joel Warsh: To me, it's eating real foods. I think the key is cooking as much food as you can, preparing it yourself, knowing what ingredients are going in there, trying to have a balanced approach and trying to eat [00:03:00] real foods and things that have been eaten for a long time. So, you know, fruits and vegetables and then.

You know, good meat and fish and things like that, you know, if you choose to do that, if you want to be a vegan or vegetarian, also fine, but most importantly, I think if you're going to do that, then you just want to make sure you're getting good sources because a lot of our food, whether you are, you know, let's say vegetarian or vegan, a lot of that is still processed, so that's not necessarily better, um, but also you can eat meat and it could be pretty crappy meat.

So I think that it kind of depends on what we're doing in the day, but I think we got to get back to the basics and eat more things that are fresh. And local because that's where you're really the nutrient density comes in and try to minimize those toxins and anything that is in a box that has a fancy label, um, that's been sitting on the shelf for many weeks.

It's going to have a lot of chemicals and preservatives in there. And at the end of the day, those are just not as good for you. And it doesn't mean you can't ever have a piece of cake. But if we are feeding our kids that food all the time and not preparing food, then they're going Getting, um, a ton of chemicals every single day, all the time, and that adds up over the long run.

And I think that's [00:04:00] where we're running into a lot of our issues.

Jacqueline: Right. What about supplements? Are there any specific supplements that you recommend parents be giving their children?

Dr. Joel Warsh: Yeah, so to me, supplements can be beneficial if you have a picky child, if you want to kind of turn the corner and move in a better direction. Realistically, supplements don't replace food, so I think we need to be getting a healthy diet and that's where our focus needs to be. I'm totally fine doing some supplements in the short term, uh, certainly if you're working on your immune support or you're like, okay, well, it seems like we're having these issues and we want to supplement some of these things back up.

to help our body get back into balance. I'm okay with that. A lot of people live in locations where they're not getting enough sunlight. So vitamin D can be really helpful. Some kids are picky eaters, not getting enough iron. So there are things that could be helpful, but at the end of the day, it's better to get sunlight and eat real food and get your vitamins that way.

So I, I'm not a big fan of just supplementing. forever just because I think uh, unless you have a deficiency in something then we should be working to improve our [00:05:00] diet and one And figuring out why we're not getting it through our food Um, but I think it's okay to do a supplement every now and again or do a multivitamin if you want

Jacqueline: Right. Yeah. No, couldn't agree more. Speaking of those picky eaters, do you have any, I guess, hacks for parents whose children are very, very picky when it comes to vegetables, for example?

Dr. Joel Warsh: yeah

Jacqueline: do they, how do they sneak those into their diet?

Dr. Joel Warsh: So I mean, well, that's the first thing, right? So, you know, we don't want to be tricking our kids too much, but I think at the beginning, it's okay. If you want to try to sneak things in here or there, you know, if you're doing a smoothie, get a little bit in there. If you're preparing some sort of food and you can get it in without them really noticing.

I think that's just a good, you know, first first step. But then realistically, That's not what we want to do in the long term, we want to be teaching them to eat this food, and we want them to gain an appreciation, so not forcing them to eat things, but just keep offering it to them, you know, have it on their plate.

One of the things that really seems to work well is offering it first, so if you're preparing dinner, then sometimes if you make some veggies before, then you can give it to them while they're hanging [00:06:00] out and the most hungry. A lot of times if a child sees the thing they want more right beside the veggie on the plate, they might not eat the veggie, so you can start by just giving them those things before.

Oh, you know, the rest of dinner's not ready, but here you can have some some carrot sticks right now. So that can get in a couple bites before you start. That's one way to do it. Using the rainbow can be really helpful for kids and kind of making sure that we're eating different foods in that week or whatever it is of different colors.

That can be really useful. Including kids often is very, very useful and very helpful. So taking them with you when you shop and having them pick out things can be really, really useful. So then it's like they're picking it out and they have some ownership over and maybe they're more likely to try it at that point.

Preparing the food with you can be really helpful. So being a part of cooking, that can be really helpful. And if you do have a farmer's market or something, similar where you can go try foods, then I think that can also be super helpful, uh, because there are, you know, 50 different kinds of apples, right?

And so they might not like an apple, but maybe if they tried 10 different ones and they can find one that they do like, and then that's the one you can [00:07:00] buy. So that, that can be really helpful for the picky kid. And then last, I would say as just being a little bit humble that maybe our cooking is not the best.

So sometimes just because you're, you know, doesn't eat broccoli, doesn't mean they won't eat broccoli if you prepare it differently. So sometimes if you weren't really. taught very much when you were younger, or you didn't do a lot of training in cooking, or you haven't really learned anything about cooking and just kind of wing, wing, winged it as you got older, then maybe, you know, the way you're preparing it is not the best way for them, and so sometimes you can, you know, there's YouTube videos, you can take a cooking class, there are a lot of, a lot of great opportunities out there to teach us about different ways to, to feed our kids, and that could potentially be, uh, something that we, we don't really think about, is that maybe our cooking is not the best, and so that's why they're not eating it.

Jacqueline: Love that. That's so true. With your own kids, have you found that they're more inclined to eat the food that they are a part of, of cooking or preparing?

Dr. Joel Warsh: I mean, not so [00:08:00] much yet because we do it a lot, but our kid eats everything. So it's not, he's only four good eaters. So it's not, it's not really been an issue. I think he loves being a part of it. So he definitely, we definitely tried to include him as much as we can, but picking him has not been our problem for him at least.

So I can't say, but I would, I would, I've heard from many, many parents and patients that I've taken care of that including them really helps for the kids that are picky eaters. So I think it's a good thing to try, um, but not, not, not Eli's problem for

Jacqueline: Yeah. And I've, I've heard, I've seen on your, lots of, that's good for you. I've seen on your Instagram too, you have this Dr. Gator smoothie. 

Dr. Joel Warsh: Yeah, so the Doctor Gators movie, it's part of the first chapter of the book, and I, you know, as I said, I wanted to really start by introducing the foundations of health, and so, whenever you watch a daytime, you know, TV show type thing, uh, there's always that guru air quotes, you know, that goes on, and it's like, oh, you have this magical smoothie, it cures everything, throw, you know, the carrots and celery and this and

Jacqueline: Throw the

Dr. Joel Warsh: and, And that's going to cure everything.

And so I kind of was making fun of that a little bit in the book and saying the Dr. Gator smoothie is, it's not [00:09:00] a real smoothie per se. It's, it's, um, you know, you start with a big scoop of the seeds. So like you said, stress environment, exercise, toxins, um, exercise, diet, and sleep, and then we throw in, you know, getting out in nature, getting some sunlight and vitamin D, um, warm family spaces, community love.

Like these are the things that actually matter as a foundation. And that's what goes into Dr. Gator smoothie. So it's not a. smoothie per se, though smoothies are great and I love smoothies, but it's more of a metaphorical one in terms of here's the foundations of what's actually going to make your kid healthy.

And so let's start with those from day one so we can make them as resilient as possible.

Jacqueline: I love that. That's gold. Um, speaking of real smoothies though, what are your thoughts on greens powders? So again, there's so many out there, right? And I mean, I know we mentioned before we don't necessarily want to trick our children, but if you really wanted to try to get a good scoop of greens into their diet and put it in a smoothie, I mean, does that necessarily have the same I guess, value, of actually having a, a cooked vegetable.

Dr. Joel Warsh: I don't think so. You know, [00:10:00] I think that everything is kind of, you have to go with where you're at and where your kids are at and then kind of work. Towards, you know, the ideal or the best. And so I think if your kids are not eating any greens, then throwing some greens powder, a good quality one can be very beneficial for them because it's moving them in a better direction.

Is that as good as eating the actual food? No, there's no way that it is because it's not fresh. It's, it's something that's been freeze dried or prepared. There's all sorts of stuff in there. There's chemicals and preservatives who knows what's in there. That's on the label, you know, all of those things, right?

So there's no way that anything that's a powder is as good as The actual food that you just picked from a garden, right? I don't think that's even close, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it or it can't be helpful. I just think you have to kind of tear it out for yourself and kind of see where your kids are at.

And if you have a super picky eater, that's not going to eat a leafy green. Well then, yeah, if you can throw some green powder into their, their smoothie, then great, that's going to get them a bunch of nutrients and vitamins that they weren't having before. And it's, it's not pasta and bread and, you know, milk or something like that.

It's at least. It's different. And, and, and, and there's probably, [00:11:00] and certainly if you get a good quality one and it's coming from good quality ingredients and that's still beneficial, but are you going to get the same nutrients from a powder or a supplement as the real food? No, it's, it's not the same thing.

It's not real food. So at the end of the day, we should be focusing on our attention to get into that point, but that might be a middle step.

Jacqueline: Yeah. Baby steps. And I know, Dr. Orrish, we spoke about, um, environmental toxins and all of that in our first episode. So, I'll be linking that in the show notes. But purposes of, of this episode, I'd really love to touch on, and again, I love how you have a more holistic, um, perspective. You know, integrative approach in terms of with this book with like parenting and everything from diet to, to behavior.

So when it comes to raising healthy children, right, not only physically, which again, we touched on mostly in the first episode, but mentally and emotionally. What tips do you have for parents, um, when it comes to things like disciplining their children and setting healthy boundaries?

Dr. Joel Warsh: Yeah, great question. So, uh, there's a good chunk of [00:12:00] the, the book on, on, on this section, because I think it is really important. There's a lot of questions that I get on this topic, especially because there are a lot of kids that seem to be more out of control these days in terms of parents who have kind of taken in that gentle parenting and don't really set boundaries.

And, and, and that is very frustrating as a pediatrician and there's a pendulum, right? And, and certainly When, when we were growing up, our parents, our grandparents, it was more like authoritarian, like my way or the highway, you know, this is what we're going to do. Spanking was kind of normal back then and all of these kinds of things.

So then you have this shift the other way where a lot of, you know, our parents and even our generation, especially as like, no, you know, I don't want that anymore. That's not good. We don't want this. My way or the highway, we want to include kids. And so we're going to embrace this gentle parenting, uh, sort of mentality.

But, gentle parenting was never meant to have no boundaries, but I think either the term is not that great, or some people kind of took the pendulum too far the other way, and [00:13:00] so there are, you know, parents where they kind of let their kids do whatever they want, they don't set boundaries, they don't ever let Um, kind of have those borders for them, but what we know is that kids thrive the best when they have boundaries, right?

We want them to have reasonable boundaries and and all of the research basically forever that we have on on parenting shows that the Authoritarian parenting where where you have some boundaries, but you also respect the child. These are important Parts of parenting and kids really thrive the best when they kind of have that that good parenting Scaffolding around them to kind of help them Figure out where they where they are in the world and and kind of push them back when they're when they're getting off track And we do that with everything I mean if we don't teach our kids to go to the toilet, then they're gonna pee wherever right?

It's like that that's that there's no we don't we don't think about it in those kind of senses But we have the way that things are in society and we kind of teach our kids to to be Good members of society. And so there are [00:14:00] some boundaries that we said, and we're teaching our kids these boundaries so they can function optimally in society today.

And I think that's the same thing with parenting and with gentle parenting. It's, we don't want to just let them run around in a restaurant and, you know, misbehaving and throwing food on everybody. Like that's not helpful for them. And, and, and they're not going to have long term damage because you set reasonable boundaries.

I mean, we want to be reasonable. That's the key there. Um, and you don't necessarily want to be over. Mean about it or unreasonable with your, with your goals and expectations based on their age, but we still need to be constantly Helping them to have boundaries so that they can function and thrive and move forward the best they can because that way they can they Have that limited scope of what they're gonna do in any sort of Topic or subject and then they know how to kind of stay in the middle of that as opposed to getting way off and then Getting dysregulated.

Jacqueline: Yeah. No couldn't agree more. And I know every parent obviously has their own method when it comes to disciplinary action. But just curious, in your case, what have you [00:15:00] found to be the most effective when it comes to disciplining your child?

Dr. Joel Warsh: think it's it just really depends on the situation what I found to be the most effective is this kind of continual circular loop of learning about him and and then kind of doing what seems to work for him. So sometimes that's going to be, um, you know, taking away a toy or something that is the thing that he really likes the most, even if it's for just two minutes, um, or just even mentioning it like, you know, like, we can't do that.

And we, you know, it's time for sleep. So, you know, If we don't do this, then this is going to happen. So setting some like gentle consequences or at least discussing what those could be, explaining things at his levels, explaining, you know, why you can't hit, why you can't bite, why you can't do that. And for the most part, that's worked pretty well.

We haven't had to do a ton of discipline with him, but it's usually again, pretty minimal, just kind of setting the boundaries. But, but I think the key is to, when you're setting a boundary, you have to set something that's reasonable and you have to stick to it. Um, so if you say you're going to, Do something like don't make [00:16:00] it way outside of what you're going to do.

So that way they learn that you're not going to do it. You know, you'd be like, okay, well, you know, if you, if you don't do this, we're going to take away your, your remote control car. Okay. And then if they do it, then you can take it. Even if they're upset for two minutes, you can be like, well, you know, all right.

Like we said, we were going to do it. So you're going to not have it for the rest of the day. And we can have it back tomorrow. Or, oh, okay. Well, you're, you know, do you understand why we can't do it? We can have it back. But if this happens again, then we're going to take away for a day, you know, or whatever.

It depends on the child, right? Because if you take away to where they don't care about. Then it doesn't matter. So you have to figure out what matters to your child and then do it in a gentle way. And then usually they understand. Those things. So I'm all for gentle consequences, but I think you need to have some boundaries.

Jacqueline: Yeah. No, I agree. I know. I remember when I was young, I think probably the most effective, at least for me, was disciplining. The time out, right, where you had to go sit in your room and every year I got older, the time out would be longer. So it went from like 10 minutes to 15 or 20. Um, and I think it was actually effective because it gave you time to really [00:17:00] sit and contemplate on what you did.

Um, and then afterwards my, my dad or my mom would always have a conversation with me. Once I've had time to cool down and reflect and explain, you know, why that behavior was wrong and. where I could have done better. Um, so I think explaining to the child, right? The, the behavior and why it was bad is also really important.

Um, but going, going back to teaching Dr. Warsh. A lot of parents nowadays want to make sure that their child is exposed to as many things as possible when they're younger to kind of, I guess, get a proxy for what they might be interested in. So for example, in the realm of. sports, right? There's parents out there who throw their kids into five different sports at the age of like four or five to see what they might have a natural knack for.

What's the proper balance between exposure but also like Not overwhelming your child with so many different things.

Dr. Joel Warsh: Yeah, that's a really good question because I don't think there's an easy answer for that. I think that that's a really, really good question. There's kind of two sides of that, right? Because [00:18:00] number one, we absolutely know that kids are way too overstressed these days and, and they are, you know, Often way involved in way too many activities and things at a young age So I think it comes back a little bit to like why we're putting them into different things if they want to do it If you want to do it if it if they're enjoying it if you're not putting them in it because you want to you know Relive your glory or whatever then I think that's okay But I think we also have to be mindful to not put our kids into too many structured things.

We want them to be in some structured things, I think. But then you also want them to have some unstructured time and you don't want them to be, you know, fully booked all the time. That's not necessarily good either. So I think the key there is, as you said, it's just finding the balance. Um, and, and if you want to expose them to multiple different things, and maybe it's not all at the same time, you know, it may be one, one or two you.

One or two things in each season. Um, so maybe, you know, if you want to do sports, like you do one sport here and maybe one, you know, music activity here, and then you can do like a gymnastics and then a different sport and, you know, an artsy thing, and then you can kind of see what they gravitate to, what they like more, and then you give [00:19:00] them the choice of what they want to do.

And you say like, okay, well, we, now we've done piano and we've done guitar and we've done soccer and we did, um, arts class, you know, last year, all these things, like, which one did you like the best? You know, as they get older, and then you can let them choose, and you pick one or two. 

Jacqueline: Yeah, 

Dr. Joel Warsh: with it, and if they don't love it anymore, you can kind of switch.

But yeah, I guess it kind of depends on how frequently you're doing some of the things, how, how scheduled you are, how many kids you have and, and what, what their interests are. I don't, I don't think we should be putting them into a bunch of stuff so that way they can get into a good college, you know, when they're five, I think that's, 

Jacqueline: What's the motivation? 

Dr. Joel Warsh: right, exactly.

Well, what's the motivation? If you're putting them in because they're super interested in a bunch of different things and you're doing it on different seasons and it's one or two days a week, that's fine. I, you know, I think that comes down to you and your preferences and finances and what you, Want to do what they want to do, but I, I don't think it's a good thing to overschedule them.

Overschedule them doesn't make them better or smarter or more likely to do anything. It just makes them maybe more stressed [00:20:00] in the long run. So I think if you have the right motivations, it's totally fine. I think there's good value in a lot of organized organized activities, but, um, you know, within reason, I guess.

Jacqueline: Yeah, that makes sense going back to what you said though about if they don't love it Here's another question for you. So how do we also balance we when I say parents even though I'm not a parent yet But how do parents balance the decision to like ask for help? make their child make a commitment versus forcing them into doing something, right?

Because I think there's a very fine line. And I say this from, you know, I'm just recalling like when I was younger, I, I did karate. I did a few sports, you're going to laugh. And I ended up quitting, not because I didn't like the sport, but because I was just very particular. I was a strange child in the sense of like, I was really great in karate.

I had the second fastest punch in the class. I was doing well. But I quit, I wanted to leave because my teacher, the, the guy had a ponytail [00:21:00] and that just like didn't sit well with me. And then for like my gymnastics teacher, had a French accent and like, I didn't like that. Like I was just very, very particular and I quit things for ridiculous reasons.

And looking back, obviously my parents didn't want to force me into doing something that I wasn't, you know, happy about, but for like silly reasons like that. Should they have maybe forced me? And I don't want to use the term forced, but

Dr. Joel Warsh: Yeah.

Jacqueline: encouraged me to like, really try it and stick it out?

Dr. Joel Warsh: That's to say. Cause I, I think again, there, it's a little bit balanced between forcing. I don't think you should force. You know, your child to do anything, but I think you should highly encourage them and teach them About sticking it out and making a commitment and finishing that that goes back to okay Well, what is the commitment?

Is it two more classes or is it in another two years, right? if you hate something and they're miserable or they're getting hurt all the time or they're getting but if there's good reasons to to stop something then I think that's not unreasonable, but I think if you and there is some value to kind of [00:22:00] teaching them Teaching a child that there is a commitment.

You've made a commitment to do karate class. And so there are three classes left, and I know you don't love the teacher, but we're just gonna finish those three classes, and then you don't have to do it anymore. Now, can you let your kids quit? Sure. But I think there is some value there in teaching them to complete what, what, what, what you started.

And, and of course, like, again, it depends on the age, what it is, um, and what you're doing. But, but I think if it's within reason and not super long, You know, left and then teach them to complete their commitment is a good is a good skill. So I don't, I don't know. I mean, I guess it depends on the child.

You're going to know your kid, um, know what the situation is and what are the reasons why they don't want to do it. But You know, like, um, for example, with, with Eli for our guy, like, he didn't want to do swimming, you know, like he was unhappy about it, but we kept doing it because he needs to learn how to swim.

And, and it was just like, do it, you know, like too bad. Um, but, but it was encouragement and discussions. And then we gave him, um, you know, treats after and like positive reinforcement. And now he swims great. Right. And he, you know, if we had, if we had have just allowed him to quit because he didn't like [00:23:00] going in the water, then, then, you know, Yeah, he wouldn't be able to swim and it's like sometimes you also have to know that your kid is just scared of something But not necessarily that they they don't really truly want to do it Like he one day didn't want to put his head under the water and was like terrified of it And then once he did it then he's like I love putting my head under the water You know It was just like it was just the encouragement that he needed to kind of get past that hurdle and that's also part of parenting so That's where each thing, you know, is different because swimming, you gotta, you gotta learn like, you know, it's important, especially if you're going to be around a pool that you need to be able to fall in and, and not drown.

So there's, there's that versus karate classic. Do you need karate class? No, you don't need karate class. So there's 20 lessons left and you hate it. Well, maybe that's not the best thing for your kid and making them stick through another. Year of it is not, it's not going to be ideal. 

Um, so yeah, I think, I think it can go both ways, but, but that's balance and know your kid is really the answer to the other day that goes back to the book.

It's like, I'm parenting at your own, your child's pace, like parenting at your family's pace, that, that really is the answer. There aren't answers to almost all of these questions, right? It's, it depends on you [00:24:00] and your family and your child, and you have to weigh the situation, take in all the information and then come up with a decision that's going to be best for you.

And maybe in your scenario, it was the best thing to not do karate, but maybe you'd be a karate star today. If you stuck it through, who knows, right?

Jacqueline: Who knows? No, that's so true. When you mentioned swimming, I just had flashbacks. Flashbacks to swim team when I was younger where I hated it and I loved it I loved it because of my friends in the community, but I hated jumping into that freezing cold water at like 630 in the morning But again, my parents didn't force me, but they did highly encourage me to stick with it And I think there's a lot of value in In teaching your children to do hard things, um, because it just builds resilience and it builds character, which I think is, you know, one of the most important things you could teach your child.

Um, but taking the focus off of the child and more onto the parent now, you've spoken a lot about mindful parenting, which basically involves being like fully present, attentive to your child without distraction, which nowadays with [00:25:00] our phones. Tied to our hips 24 seven is very challenging Can you touch on why it is so important to be like in the moment with your child without distractions?

Dr. Joel Warsh: I think very simply it's our kids are watching us and we're there and they, they, what they want most in general is our attention and, and our care and our love. And if we're distracted with other things, most of the time, then they see that and they're learning that. And, and, you know, who knows what's going through their head as they're seeing, you know, mom or dad.

on their phone as opposed to paying attention. Does that mean you can't ever be on your phone? No. But I, I think if you're gonna be on it, you know, you're like, okay, I gotta go into this work, work email, be back in two minutes, or, you know, make sure that you're spending some quality time throughout the day where those things are away.

So if you're gonna be present, be present, you know, do it for that 20 minutes, half an hour, one hour, whatever it is, and then, you know, go on your phone or computer or whatever it needs to be. But I, I think that we, We forget that our kids care most about just being with us. Um, we're, [00:26:00] we're so caught up in, in all of the stuff that's going on in the world and the fast pace of everything.

And what's, you know, Being emailed to us and what's on our what's what's what's the next thing on our social media app and whatnot But our kids don't really care about that when they're young. They just care about playing with you So it's easy to get caught up in it and it's also it's just as easy to Become more mindful as a parent and just remember.

Okay, you know, okay. God, I like be mindful to spend Some quality time I'm going to put my phone away for, for a few minutes and, and, and, you know, for me, even as it's, it's hard, like it, it's a hard thing to do, especially as a doctor, you know, I always need my phone kind of to answer and things like that, but I do certainly very mindfully put it away every now and again for spurts of time, just kind of put it, you know, not with me on the counter.

It's like usually 20 minutes goes by. It's okay. It's not the world. If somebody texts me, um, I can get back to them. Yeah. And, um, that's what I do if I feel like I'm not spending enough time. Um, or sometimes I'll go somewhere where I can't get service. So that way it's like, yeah, didn't have service there.

So it's easy, easy enough to be more mindful [00:27:00] when you go somewhere that doesn't have really good, good service or just leave it for a little bit. Um, and, and just that even a little bit of full attention can go a long way. 

Jacqueline: And I mean, there's certainly so much research out there that shows the damaging effects of, uh, screen time. Being on a screen, um, for adults, but also for children, recognizing the negative impact that it has on a child's development.

So with that, Dr. Warsh, I mean, we see parents giving their six year olds iPhones right from the perspective of, oh, my child needs to contact me if anything's wrong. But that might not, you know, be the best reason to give your child a, a device that otherwise could be really damaging. So with that, has there been any research,, and if not, perhaps, like, what's your opinion on, I guess, the proper age, and again, this is going to vary, but your opinion on the proper age to give a child a cell phone, for example.

Dr. Joel Warsh: Yeah. It's not definitive, but there's definitely been lots of research. I mean, Jonathan H. It's book is all over the place now in terms of social [00:28:00] media and, and, and screen times. And I think the trend at the moment is kind of to push that back as long as possible. So yeah. The, you know, the latest wisdom is to try to wait till like 14 to 16 or older, if possible for, for a smartphone, uh, before it was kind of like 12.

So the answer to me, in my opinion, is just as long as you can hold out, hold out, um, if you're going to have the reason that you want to give your kid a phone because of safety or contact, I think that's not unreasonable, but it doesn't have to be a smartphone. There are a lot of phones that don't have those capabilities, uh, and I think that's fine if you're going to give your kid.

That when they're younger, just to have, you know, be able to contact you, then it's fine. Just give them a, an old flip phone kind

of thing. Um, there's a lot of new companies that are coming out now that have phones that don't really have internet access. So that to me is a good middle ground for parents who, who talk about safety.

Um, I think that we have a mental health crisis and social media is really bad for young kids. So I think we should be really mindful to stay safe. Keep them off of that for as long as possible. Um, [00:29:00] if they are on social media already, then it's probably going to be hard to get them off. But, but within reason, try to help them to minimize it.

Maybe, again, get rid of the smartphone so they're not on it all day. And then, you know, if they go on their computer at some point during the day, then at least they are not the only one not on it. It's hard in this world where everybody else is on it to have a kid that's not going to be on it. They don't want to be the outcast.

We, we should be mindful of that. To, um, but you can put again, boundaries around the usage of it. And so not that they're, they're never on it and they don't have the access to their friends, but at the same time, they're not on it constantly. Uh, and I think that at least a good start, but yeah, there's a lot of discussion.

This is like really topical right now of, of what, what, what to do and, and, and how to move forward with it because we, it's pretty clear that there's a mental health crisis and a big part of that is from COVID 19. and, and screens and, and teens are on their screens like seven to nine hours average 

a Massive. And, and to me, it's okay. Well, what are you not doing on that time? You're [00:30:00] not outside. You're not engaging with people in person. You're not getting sunlight. You're, you know, you're on your screen and it's, it's, the screen is not inherently bad. Like I'm, I'm not like, Oh, if a kid looks at a screen, they're brainstorming too much.

That's not the issue. Like you can learn from a screen. You can do your schoolwork on a screen. You know, there are a lot of things that could be good from a screen. You just don't learn as well. Um, we know, especially for little kids, um, but you can still learn. Yeah. , 

it's just whatcha not doing? 

Jacqueline: yeah, exactly. It's the absence of what you're not doing. And I mean, it breaks my heart, too, when I see young kids just on their parents iPhones playing games or with an iPad, and I look back to when I was, you know, 3, years old, and I was Like outside playing, imaginative play, other forms of hands on learning and exploration, and I look at children now and it's like, they don't have that, you know, and how does that affect brain function and development and even social interaction?

At that young of an age,

Dr. Joel Warsh: Yeah. No, I, I think it's a big deal, but [00:31:00] you know, again, I, I think that the, there, like the American Academy of says no screen time before too, and I think that's also wrong because that just scares parents if they're like, have a TV in the background as it turn their kids' brains to mush. I, I, again, I think it's, it's not that if you look at a screen, it's so bad for you.

It's if you plop your kid in front of the screen for hours, then they're not engaging, you're not reading with them. You're not playing with them. Like that to me is the problem. If you're on a plane and your kid is. going to be screaming and having a tantrum, or they could watch an episode of an educational thing.

Like, which one is better? You know, I think like there's some good uses for screens and, and, and watching videos and things like that. So I'm not against it. I just think that we use it way too much. It's way, it's kind of everywhere and kids are on it as opposed to doing other things. And, and that is a big problem to me, but screens are not going anywhere.

So to kind of. Like, put it all down, that's, that's not, it's not realistic for most parents, you want to move to the mountains and have no screens, go for it, so be it, that's probably better, right, it probably is, you know, for, for our mental health, but [00:32:00] not realistic for most people, so I wouldn't stress about them watching five minutes of something, I think it's just mindful screen time and, and, and boundaries with your screen time, and that will be fine for

Jacqueline: Yeah. No, that makes sense. And I feel like a consistent theme throughout this conversation is just showing yourself grace, yourself being the parent, recognizing that you do have to meet your child where they're at. You can't do everything perfectly. Um, and I'd say it's pretty safe to say that no one is ever really, ever ready, right.

To be a parent. So with that, how do you inspire parenting confidence?

Dr. Joel Warsh: You said it, nobody is ready, right? Where don't feel completely ready because you can't be ready until you go through it and the main Part of parenting is just continually learning about your child and then continually making adjustments that best suit them as you go and you figure that out as you go.

There's no, um, one way to do it. There is no such thing as perfect because that, that doesn't exist. That doesn't have even [00:33:00] a meaning when it comes to parenting. We're just doing the best that we can and trying to keep them as healthy as we can and trying to help them flourish the best way that we, we know how at the time.

And when you learn something new, you can kind of impart that information into you and then, and then put that into your world when you're, you know, teaching them or living your life. So. We have been parenting forever, right? I mean, for as long as you can go back, people have been parenting, we figure it out as we go, and, and there's always stresses in the world, and there's certainly stresses now, but a lot of those stresses are self imposed, and, and we have much better safety on almost everything when it comes to parenting than we ever have before.

We have safety standards, we have seatbelts, we have Gates for pools. We have, uh, medications, we have hospitals and, and, you know, ambulances and we have, we don't have lead in our paint or mercury and things, or, you know, cocaine and heroin and our medications, like there's all sorts of things that we've learned over the years that, that we didn't have before.

So as, even though it seems like it's the scariest time in the world to be a parent, it's not really. I mean, there's obviously [00:34:00] things to be, to know about out there, but, but at the end of the day, we have a lot more information at our fingertips than we ever had before, and the vast majority of.

Emergencies, pretty much all of them. You know, if it's an emergency, you know, you'll call 911, you'll go to the hospital, everything else, you have time to figure it out. And you do figure it out as you go. And that doesn't mean you shouldn't contact your doctor or ask somebody if you have questions, but we figure it out.

And there are very, very few like emergency emergencies and those you can usually tell pretty obviously. So the rest of it, it just, you figure it out as you go. We all do. And, and, and 99. 9 percent of the times when I get a text or an email from a parent, it's normal. It's always normal, you know, every once in a while it's not, but almost always it is.

And so I just remind people that again, it's like, if that's the case where you're messaging a doctor and 99. 9 percent of the time, it's normal. Even if you're a little nervous as a parent, it's probably going to be okay because that's the reality of the statistics that it's okay to be a little nervous, but just remember that. You know, kids get sick, they get better. You got sick, they get better. If something, you get hurt, [00:35:00] they get better. Like this is part of childhood. And so at the end of the day, we just, we just figured it as we go. We get more confident as we do it. And, and, and that's parenting.

Jacqueline: Yeah, I am curious, Dr. Worsh, you've obviously dealt with many, many parents, uh, in your practice, but what are some of the biggest fears that they have, new parents in particular?

Dr. Joel Warsh: I think the biggest fears is that they're going to screw it up. They're going to like injure their child. They're going to break off a finger when they're putting on their clothes. They're going to. Um, be a bad parent. They're not going to know what to do in a situation. They're going to miss something. I think all of those, those fears are just massive in, in parents.

And, um, and I think that's not unreasonable to be mindful of that again, but I think that we should. Trust in our parenting gut that we will know the right thing to do for our kids. Um, and, and we will figure it out as we go, because again, parents have been doing that forever. And even if you can't figure it out, we have more information than we ever had before, and you have the ability to call people [00:36:00] and do zooms and go at it.

Like we have more access to everything than we ever had before. So we will just figure it out as we get there. So, yeah, I mean, it's okay to be a little nervous, but, but if that nervousness spills over into extreme anxiety, that's where it's a problem. Because then it's a problem for you and your child because they, they can't.

It goes back and forth.

Jacqueline: I was just going to ask you, for those parents out there who tend to overreact, or again, it's their first child and they're stepping on their tiptoes 24 What advice do you have for them when it comes to just kind of taking a step back, like, if their child hits their head, right, and they start freaking out that they're concussed or there's brain bleeding, like, how do you balance the overreaction versus probably what the reality of the situation is in that moment?

Dr. Joel Warsh: Yeah, that's that's hard because, you know, in the moment it can be really difficult, especially if you're concerned about a health thing that that reacting in a reasonable manner can be tough. But I think that's something that comes with learning and and over time. But I think the bigger question here is that the general anxiety that parents have that is much more [00:37:00] constant and problematic.

And that's where we have to it. Be mindful of it and take care of ourself. And, you know, if we need to go see a therapist or have discussions or learn to manage our anxiety or our fears a little bit, that, that can come in really handy as a parent, um,

Jacqueline: Yeah.

Dr. Joel Warsh: there's nothing that substitutes for experience. And so sometimes you just need the experience of going through things to have a guidepost of what to be nervous about.

Um, sometimes, you know, reading things can be, like, that's where I like. part of the book. And one of the reasons why I wrote the book is just to, to try to give people some guideposts on like, here are the things that are probably going to come up in your life. Here's the different options of how you can handle it.

Here's how you think through it. Here's how I think through it. Um, and then, you know, go from there. I can't tell people what to do because every situation is going to be different and you have to kind of figure what makes sense for your own child. And if your child falls and hits their head, well, maybe you should be worried.

Maybe they're having a brain bleed, right? Like that's what you have to figure out. Um, and you may or may not be able to do that on your own. So it doesn't mean you shouldn't, shouldn't check, but at the same time, if your kid has. Like a minor fall and a minor scratch and you're super worried and feel like they're it's going to [00:38:00] be infected and it's the end of the world and I got to go to the hospital.

Well, that's like a overreaction. And so that negatively affects your kids too. So we want to be balanced. We want to make sure that our, our fears are reasonable. And so that's where I think learning about some of these things can be, can be really helpful and managing our, our own stresses.

Jacqueline: Yeah. And certainly, too, I mean, you can't go by the expression of the child, right? I mean, there's many times where you see a three year old fall or, like, scratch themselves, and they freak out. Like, it's the end of the world. But the parent, like, will kiss it and say, oh, here's a band aid, and they're fine, right?

So, it's hard to tell, like, the severity of the actual, uh, Situation. Um, speaking of anxiety, what are some helpful tips for parents for Children who are dealing with anxiety? And when I ask this question, I think of my sister, who probably up until the age of 7 or 8. Would go into my parents room every single night, even though it was like two feet away I slept next to her in the same room because she just was [00:39:00] overcome with all these anxious thoughts And my parents worked through that with her through a multitude of ways But just in general like what what are some tips you have 

Dr. Joel Warsh: You just said it. I think there's a bunch of different ways to kind of work through it. And I think that's the key is not to ignore it, um, to work with them. And, and again, it depends how, how old they are and what the level of anxiety is and how bad it's affecting them and their functioning, but we want to.

You know, address it through books. I mean, there's a lot of great books you can read to kind of talk about it. There's a lot of different strategies that you can do from mindfulness and exercises to to other things, depending on their age. You can certainly go to a therapist. I think that's a great thing to work on tools and really understand that it's also something as a family thing.

So everybody goes together and we can learn some tools and strategies as a family to minimize the stress and anxiety and also, you know, where is the stress and anxiety coming from? Sometimes it's more general versus if you have an older kid, then, then for some it may be like, okay, we got to get them off social media.

We have to, you know, Change up what they're looking at. We got [00:40:00] to minimize watching the news. We got to watch what we're talking about because we're stressing them out. Like, you have to know your kid, their age, and what their, their big stressors are, but sometimes getting an outside perspective can be really helpful.

And then there's supplements and herbs and other things that can help you with calming, like magnesium and chamomile and lavender. Um, so there, there are, there are a variety of different things that you can, can do, and it depends on the age and, and the child.

Jacqueline: Yeah No, that's helpful. Speaking of therapy I, I'm really interested to hear your take on this. I think therapy is really effective when it comes to teaching tools for people, you know, to use in, in those active situations, but I've heard, or, yeah, I mean, I listened to a lot of podcasts too, and more and more research is coming out that's saying that people who repeatedly hash over past events or ruminate traumas in their lives, right?

During therapy. Absolutely. Absolutely. That could actually do more harm than good, and certainly it depends on the therapist, right, that you're seeing, but, I don't know, when it comes to therapy for [00:41:00] children, do you think that's a particularly, like, effective, or one of the most effective and healthy means to address issues like that?

Dr. Joel Warsh: Yeah, I, I think so. I mean, I'm not familiar with the work that you're, you're talking about specifically, but I would say that of, I mean, what I've just seen personally, and what I've always heard is that, You know, therapy does help kids more than almost anything with, with working through strategies. Now, what I always tell parents, and you did kind of mention this, you know, very, very briefly when, when you were talking about this, but I think it's an important thing not to gloss over is depends on the therapist, right?

And I say that to, families all the time, that there are so many different kinds of therapists that are trained in all sorts of different things. A lot of stuff I never even heard of before until I, you know, got into pediatrics, and then learned about the different kinds of therapists, and the different kinds of treatment strategies, and whatever it is.

So I think a Probably the most massive part of, of, of whether it's going to be effective or not is if you find a good match, um, a good match for the issues and [00:42:00] a good match for your child and your family. And so I always tell families, like, I think this is super helpful in general, but you have to be willing to go to multiple therapists.

You know, if you go to the first one and you're like, I don't like this person, they're terrible, they're not helping. That doesn't mean that therapy doesn't work. It just might mean that that therapist was not a good match for you. And, and so I think it is very important to realize that you might need to go to a couple.

before you find one that is, is the right fit for you. Because if you do find someone who's the right fit for helping you to get the strategies that work for you, then that seems to be extraordinarily effective. But if you just go to a random therapist and they just, you know, are not in tune with your family or your child, then they're not Right.

It's not useful at all. So yes, it depends on who you go to, but I think with therapy, especially almost over anything else in health and medicine, you got to find the right one. Um, because they, a lot of them are not going to be a good match for you, but the right match is going to be really helpful.

Jacqueline: Yeah, that makes sense. Speaking of matching, in a separate setting, let's say for an older [00:43:00] child, that child has a group of friends at school that you're not, let's say it's your child, fast forward six years from now, your child's with a group of friends, not really the best influence on him.

How do you effectively, I guess, still establish boundaries and give your child independence While also vocalizing that, you know, this might not be the best set of people to surround yourself with.

Dr. Joel Warsh: Yeah, that's a tough one. Um, because I think you do want to support their autonomy, but at the same time, like you said, you have to have discussions, kind of set your boundaries and, and, and do whatever it is. I mean, the older they get, the harder it is because the more independent they're going to be, the younger they are, the more you have some choice.

But yeah, I don't, I don't think there's an easy answer to that because you can't, I mean, I guess you can like, you know, ground them forever, but it's not realistic, right? So I think that, that you, you have to be more mindful and teach them about the issues. And then hopefully that they're going to make different choices or better choices and expose them to other things.

I think sometimes just exposing them to other [00:44:00] activities and other things can move them into maybe some different groups and peer groups and other friends. But. Yeah, it's not easy as a parent to be like, all right, I don't like your friend Johnny So you can't hang out with him anymore, you know, but then they're at school together.

It's like

Jacqueline: Yeah. 

Dr. Joel Warsh: Yeah, I I don't I don't have a good answer. I don't think it's easy I think you just you talk to them about it you teach them, uh, and you try to expose them to other things.

Jacqueline: yeah, it's always like, what is that healthy level of autonomy? And I think too, it begins with like, what values are you teaching your child right from the very start? And hopefully trust that they'll. discern who to spend time with based on, on those values. But yeah, we'll have another episode, Dr. Orrish, in like 10 years and you could tell me all your learnings from the teenage years.

Dr. Joel Warsh: We'll see when I get there It's easy right now and you're like, all right, you're gonna hang out with these four kids. Let's go Yeah

Jacqueline: If you could tell yourself one thing before your first child was born what would it be?

Dr. Joel Warsh: I would say it's just to trust your gut. Um, I think that we [00:45:00] don't trust our guts and the reality is we actually are pretty good at this one. When it's in, it's in there, like it's innate and we usually know what to do. So I think just going back, just trying to tell myself to not be as nervous, to remember that I really can do this.

And, and, and, and I think that's, it goes for parents too. It's just reminding yourself, you can do this. And I know we're nervous, but we got this and we'll figure it out as we go. And, and. You know, we, we did figure it out as we went along. And so there's, there's no, there's no need to be so concerned about, um, if I'm ready to have a child versus not ready to have a child, you're never really ready and you just kind of, you just kind of make room for them and figure it out as you go.

Jacqueline: I love that. With that though, like when you're asking, am I ready to have a child? So, what are like just some basic foundational questions, maybe black and white questions that someone could ask to figure out if it's a yes or no? Like outside from the emotional part, right? Let's talk about like tangible things that you should be asking yourself before having a child,

Dr. Joel Warsh: Yeah, I, I, I, I don't think there's [00:46:00] much that you need to have to be ready to be a child because people have kids all over the world and they don't have much of anything that's, you know, physically tangible. I think it's, you know, are you, do you feel somewhat ready, you know, in terms of your, your age and preparedness in your life?

Do you have a good partnership? Um, you know, if you're going to be doing it together with, with a partner or if you're not doing with partner, I guess you feel ready to take on a child on your own to some degree, but, but do you need a lot of money? No. Do you need a lot of resources? No. I mean, you. You want to be however ready you feel you need to be, I guess.

But, but the reality is that whatever stage you get to, you know, you have a bigger house, or you have a house, or you have this much money, and then you have more money. It's like you're never gonna have enough, you know, unless maybe you're like a billionaire or something. But you're never gonna totally be like, oh, I have a hundred thousand, but now I want a million.

It's like there's always more that you could have, um, so you're never really gonna truly feel like you have enough. To have kids, I think, is kind of the way that things seem to be. So it's just more of a decision that like, I want to have kids when I'm this age versus this age. I want to be in this kind of relationship before I have kids.

I want to be married for [00:47:00] this long. I want to, whatever it is that it is for you, I think those are the questions to ask yourself. But I think if you're asking yourself, do I feel ready? That's the wrong question because you're never gonna really feel ready. I think I don't know anyone that's like, oh, yeah I totally felt ready.

I was good to go and maybe if you were like 40 and you're you're kind of at the end of where you You could potentially have tough kids for most people then maybe you feel ready at that point You're like, I know I got to do this now, so I'm ready That's maybe the more the situation but even then you might feel ready in terms of your biological clock But you don't necessarily feel ready in terms of like I know what I'm doing

Jacqueline: right? Have you noticed a difference in approach between folks who have their first child in like their mid thirties, for example, versus, you It's parents who have children in their mid twenties.

Dr. Joel Warsh: I don't think so. I mean, I think that the older you are, the more life experience you have. Maybe you have different, a little bit different values. Maybe you're in a little better place in terms of your stability. So sometimes that can be an advantage, but. Realistically, no, because again, the most of [00:48:00] parenting, you just figure it out as you go.

Uh, so I don't know that it matters that much because I feel like, uh, a parent who's 30 who's had three kids is going to be much more prepared and confident than a parent who's 35. Who's having their first kid. It's, it's experience. I think that really gives you the confidence in parenting. So I don't know that it matters that that much.

I mean, certainly with there's. Something to the knowledge that comes with age, um, but then you also have a lot more, uh, you know, younger parents might have a little more entry. So there's some positives and negatives, uh, with 

Jacqueline: go. That makes sense. Well, obviously, your book is going to be within this category of the top three books to read before becoming a parent, or even if you are a parent now, but what are, I guess, two other books that you recommend listeners read, um, again, for those listeners who are wanting to become parents?

Who are parents now and need more of a holistic approach in, in caring for their children.

Dr. Joel Warsh: Yeah. Well, I think the other, so there's a couple of other big books in the category. [00:49:00] Obviously what to expect when expecting is like, uh, You know, the Bible, but that's, you know, kind of an older book now. Um, and, and it's more of a, you know, big book. It's like really big, kind of goes through everything versus more.

This is more like specific and poignant to now, um, Emily Oster's books. She has some great, great parenting books and those are very popular. Eliza Pressman has a new one. Um, that's really good. The five principles. So there, there's definitely some other. Great, great books out there that I've read, um, and they're, they're all just like a little bit different, a little bit more unique, like Emily Oster is an economist, so she kind of has a very unbiased opinion on things and kind of just looks at the data, which is good, but also no real personal experience, um, with working with kids, so it's just kind of an unbiased view of the data, which is really interesting.

Um, Eliza Pressman more from a therapist perspective, a little bit more for older kids, but it's good in terms of setting your principles and then what to expect if you want like a book that you're going to. Um, you know, if you want to have kind of every piece of information out there, that's good. But I also know that most people that get that book don't [00:50:00] read most of it.

And maybe they'll read little things here or there. Um, whereas my book is maybe more, more digestible, fun, funny, that kind of thing. So I don't know. They're just different kinds of books. I try to make mine more unique. And again, there's a holistic perspective that none of the other books have. There's a balanced perspective that none of their books have and a health, um, aspect to it, which the other books don't have.

So it's just a different spin depending on what you're looking for.

Jacqueline: Yeah. No, that makes sense. I'll be linking all of those in the show notes as well. And where can listeners find you and also pre order a copy of your new book?

Dr. Joel Warsh: Sure. So you can find me probably best places on, um, Instagram or Twitter at Dr. Joel Gator. And then, um, the book you can get everywhere that books are sold, you know, the normal places, but you can also go to the title. So it's parenting at your child's pace of parenting at your child's pace. com. If you go there, then my email is on there.

You can email me if you pre order and then I will send you, um, First chapter, a bonus chapter and access to our parenting community, which is a [00:51:00] great space to ask questions, chat with me, chat with other parents, especially if you want to dive into any of the topics in the book or anything else a little deeper.

And that's a great place to chat. And we do lots of lives and Q and A's and things like that.

Jacqueline: Awesome. Wonderful. Well, I will again be linking all that in the show notes. I can't wait to pick up a copy. I'm super excited to read it. But thank you so much for your time, Dr. Warsh. Um, loved our conversation as always. And I am going to ask you again, could be a slightly different answer than last time, but.

What does being well and strong mean to you?

Dr. Joel Warsh: what is being well and strong mean to me? I think it means being resilient, you know, having a resilient family, being resilient yourself with your health and being ready for anything that comes our way. Okay.

Jacqueline: Love that. Awesome. . Well, again, Dr. Warsh, thank you for your time and I'm looking forward to round three.

Dr. Joel Warsh: Thank you. Thank you. I look forward to it.


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Jacqueline Genova

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