How To Be WellnStrong

61: Reversing Autoimmune Disease with Herbal Medicine | Lindsay Etemadipour

• Jacqueline Genova • Episode 61

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Lindsay Etemadipour was among the very first wellness content creators I followed when I started WellnStrong’s Instagram, and she’s been in the wellness space curating content as a holistic herbalist for over ten years. Having grappled with an array of autoimmune diseases and chronic conditions spanning two decades, Lindsay spent years in and out of doctors' offices, finding no relief. Her experience led her to pursue alternative modalities and discover the power of herbalism. Lindsay’s passion led to her founding Symbi, a loose-leaf tea brand providing ancient remedies for modern ailments. In this episode, Lindsay and I discuss the value of holistic treatments in addressing chronic illness, why herbal remedies can be effective tools in treating a variety of disorders – from autoimmunity to hormonal imbalances, how to select quality herbs, and how Lindsay began creating her own herbal blends to help restore her health.

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*Unedited Transcript*
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Jacqueline: [00:00:00] Lindsay, I'm so excited to actually just chat with you. I feel like I know you because I've been following you for so long. And, uh, I think, I think I shared this with you, but you were one of like the very first people I ever followed when I created my well and strong account.

And I think at the time you had like 10 or 12, 000 followers. And I remember looking at you and I was like, I want to be like her. Like we had very similar backgrounds and one thing I've just always admired about you is that you're self educated. Like you just dove into the research, you dove into books.

You learned how to heal yourself, and that's kind of been, you know, my journey with my mom over the past few years. Um, so just, yeah, I'm really excited to, to chat with you

Lindsay: Me too. I feel like it's, we come from a similar background because I think that like a lot of my journey was spurred because of my Um, like liver conditions and stuff like that. So I think it's always, um, it's always fun to talk to people that have, [00:01:00] you know, similar passion behind what they do and kind of like a similar ethos for why they do what they do.

So, yeah.

Jacqueline: Exactly. And I think that's why I love this community so much, is because everyone who is in it has either A, like, battled with some health condition themselves, or B, is like, helping a family member, you know, and that's why, like, they're all the more passionate about it. Um, So I love that. But anyway, yeah, with that, Lindsay, just to kick it off, I'd love if you could just share a bit more about your story, why you started your platform.

You just mentioned your dad, um, and also how you first became interested in herbal medicine.

Lindsay: yeah, I'll give I'll try to give a short synopsis. It always feels like such a long journey because it spans like 15 years.

But when I was really little, I was just kind of like a poster child for chronic illness and just being sick all the time. And I just had Tons of different things going on to the point where I feel like a lot of people always [00:02:00] thought that I was just faking like, oh, she just doesn't want to play soccer or she doesn't want to go to school or whatever it is.

Um, and eventually my mom kind of realized, you know, these are just growing pains. There's something going on here. Like it's not normal for my kid to have joint pain one day and the next day have a really high fever and the next day have a rash. Like all of these just weird symptoms. And so over the course of kind of like my childhood and then into my teenage years, I was in and out of specialty doctors trying to figure out what was going on because I really had just a crazy rap sheet of symptoms.

And I was diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis at one point. It was a misdiagnosis. Um, About 10 years later, I would see another rheumatoid doctor who just basically said, like, you don't have rheumatoid. It's very obvious that you have lupus, your numbers, all the labs point towards lupus, all of your symptoms point towards lupus.

And, um, at that point in time, I was given like the lupus [00:03:00] diagnosis when I was like 23. Um, and that was kind of like a pivotal point for me in my health journey. I had spent those 10 years prior just kind of just trying everything that I could possibly try to see what would help make me feel better and help.

Let me live at least a somewhat normal life. Um, and when I got the lupus diagnosis, it was kind of like things finally made sense and I could finally like put more puzzle pieces together to try to reach a point of feeling better and reach a point of healing with really targeted like supplementation, herbalism, lifestyle habits.

that type of thing. Um, so that was when I was like 22 or almost 23. I was given that diagnosis and over the year and a half after that, I really kind of just narrowed down what I was doing with my body. And that was at that point in time, I think I had been sharing online for about two years actually. [00:04:00] Um, and up until then I was sharing more about like recipes, gluten free stuff, sugar free stuff, because that was what I was like focused on.

And at that point in time, you know, we didn't have as many gluten free options in the grocery stores. We didn't have like a whole aisle dedicated to it. Yeah. Um, and so I was just trying to find more people. That were in the same boat or more people that were sharing similar content. And so when I kind of finally got that lupus diagnosis, I kind of shifted my content around autoimmune health, because I felt like there wasn't that much in the space at all about autoimmune diseases.

Like we had a few professionals, some amazing medical doctors that were sharing more about it online, but for the most part, there wasn't like a. Instagram community or whatever. Um, but that started to really grow, I think. Once more people like myself and like you were sharing more about Kind of [00:05:00] like chronic health issues and autoimmune health issues more people started to say.

Oh, that's me Like that's me too. Like I have these issues too. And so the community kind of just grew like organically that way And since then i've been Sharing on social media. I think it's almost like 10 years now. Um Just about my journey. What's worked for me, what hasn't worked for me, what's working like for me now.

Um, I've been doing a lot of reflection on kind of different things I've tried out and different paths I tried to take and just sharing basically like. What worked for me essentially, because I think there's so much information out there and there are so many great people you can get advice from. Um, so I always just kind of try to focus on myself and the journey that like brought me to where I am now.

Yeah.

Jacqueline: I love that. That's an incredible story. And you touched on something really important that like, I've been doing a lot of reflecting on too. And that is one size [00:06:00] does not fit all. And like, You know, like you and I know better than most people because we're in the space, but like, it's so overwhelming when you go on Instagram and you see so much content about, you know, I cured my PCOS doing X, Y, and Z, or I cured my cancer doing X, Y, Z.

And like, this is something I continually struggle with, even with my mom, but like, what do you do? You know, there's so many different paths to take. And I think it's really easy to look at one person and say, Oh, they healed. I'm going to do this without recognizing like. That might not be the best path for you, you know, so it's really about being discerning and parsing through all of that.

And one thing I love about your account that you're a big advocate for is just that. And you're great with like balance. And I love that you call things out. You're like, you call the wellness influencers out. You're like, listen, like, just because this person has a five hour morning routine, like this is not realistic.

Right. And you bring the reality aspect back to like living well. You don't have to be perfect, right? Like you [00:07:00] can still go get highlights at your hair salon and get your nails done. And, you know, and still live a healthy lifestyle. It's not all or nothing. And I think there's so much all or nothing now mindset in the space.

Lindsay: Yeah, for sure. And I think part of the reason I started talking about more of how my mindset shifted, which is something like I probably wouldn't have shared unless I started seeing like so much content around like perfection and around obsession and also just like really demeaning content. There's a lot of information in the wellness space.

I think that like, maybe it's well, Intentioned but a lot of it's very demeaning and kind of like well if you can't do this this this like That's your fault or like even when people approach it talking about food and they're like Well, if you eat this way, it's actually really cheap. So why aren't you eating this way like I don't know.

I just think There's a lack of empathy in a [00:08:00] space that needs the most empathy and I That's what I've been trying to kind of emphasize too is like along my journey of healing and really Working on my health like what I realized was Sure, I can be super dogmatic about things but like that's just gonna make my life significantly smaller Instead of making it bigger like i'm not healing and going through this crazy like 10 year journey of effort, money, like time to get to a place where like, I can't go out to dinner with people and just get like a pizza or whatever, you know, I want to get.

So I think like for me, that is, that has been a learning process. And I think for a lot of people too, a lot of times when you. Go to the extreme You're gonna Eventually bounce back. It's like kind of like I always say it's like a pendulum like when you go so far to the right Like you can't there's a point where you can't go any further and a lot of people eventually reach that naturally And I [00:09:00] think that's what happened to me and what happens what i've seen happen to a lot of fellow creators and people like that um So it's just like trying to emphasize.

I always try to emphasize to people, like, we're trying to improve your life. We're trying to make it bigger. We're trying to get you from a place of not feeling good to feeling good. But if that's going to impact, like, if you're going to feel good physically, but mentally you feel drained and terrible, like what's the point?

Jacqueline: Yeah, exactly.

Lindsay: yeah. So I just try to emphasize that, especially as someone who, you know, I. I was even just talking to my husband about this yesterday because I had a stomach ache for like the first time in so long. And I was like, how did I used to feel like this every single day? And just pretty much like over that span of time, seeing my own relationship with food, with supplements, with herbs, with everything, watching it change and come to a point of where I feel like I've reached really good balance [00:10:00] and where I've reached.

Like, I think I can say, like, as someone who like was diagnosed with. So many autoimmune diseases to the point where now I'm just like a healthy human being and I don't really make much of a consideration for the autoimmune side. Like it's possible and you don't have to do it in such a crazy rigid like way.

Like I live such a balanced life now and it has, it hasn't negatively impact my health at all. If anything, I think it's probably positively impact my health.

Jacqueline: Amen to all of that. I couldn't agree more. The stress about whatever it is you're worried about, like, eating that seed oil at the restaurant or, like, having non organic coffee, like, that is worse than the actual thing itself. And again I don't know. A lot of this happens to people like creators in the wellness space.

Like I caught myself doing this last year where I would actually be scared to go out to eat to a restaurant, which was absolute insanity because I was like, do they cook with olive oil? Do they cook with [00:11:00] canola oil? And then you're just sitting there at dinner, like thinking, what am I eating? And again, I think education is important, but there's something to be said about ignorance is bliss.

Right. And just kind of like recognizing that, like, I don't do this every night. I'm just going to enjoy myself. Like the benefits of the social component of that dinner, being around friends that has so many health benefits, right. That outweigh like whatever potential canola oil you might be eating. 

So yeah, that mindset is super important.

, and another thing too, I love that you mentioned, um Or that you mentioned in your content rather is, I mean, there's certainly a place in time for conventional medicine, right? And I think we both agree that for acute conditions, we definitely want conventional medicine. If you fall, you need stitches.

Great. But for more chronic conditions, it can often do more harm than good. And I know you struggled with polycystic ovary syndrome for a bit. I too was diagnosed with that. I want to say when I was like, I don't know, Lindsay, like 16 or [00:12:00] 17 and I didn't know any better. I went on birth control for four years, went through all of those symptoms.

Again, like you sat down and did my own research. I was like, is this really helping me or should I maybe consider something else? And. I got off of it. and I went to my endocrinologist a few months later and he was like, your blood work looks great. what have you been doing?

You don't present as a patient with PCOS anymore. And I was like, Oh, you know, just some lifestyle changes, some nutrition changes, but it just goes to show you. You can actually reverse, you can reverse a diagnosis, right? Like your body can heal. And I think sadly, a lot of people accept diagnoses from their doctors and it like becomes their identity, right?

It's like, this is my life now. I have to deal with this. So how did you. Like shift that mindset. And I think that was always like kind of within you, but I feel like it came out more obviously post lupus diagnosis, but what things did you do to [00:13:00] like really help shift your mindset from victim to I'm going to, you know, I'm going to overcome this.

Lindsay: Yeah. Um, I think that for me, like you said, it was always inside of me. Like when I was in high school and when I was, when I was diagnosed with PCOS or with the rheumatoid or with, I had like a specific type of stomach disease. Like I never said that I had those, like it was actually the opposite.

Like I've never, Like, I think a lot of people get obsessed with identifying with diseases, or just in general, we love to identify with things because it makes us feel, you know, a part of something. And for me, it was kind of the opposite. Like, I never, like, would say that I had PCOS, or I'd never say even when I got the lupus diagnosis, like, I remember my mom, like, talking to my mom and my friends afterwards, and them just being like, okay, like, Well, what are you gonna do like now that you have this diagnosis like you have lupus.

How do you feel? And for me it was like I never wanted [00:14:00] to associate like I never wanted to associate with those things especially as an adult because I think growing up as a sick kid like you quickly get labeled as a sick kid and even today like with like my extended family or whatever people who I grew up with when I was younger like If I have a cold, it's like, Oh my God, Lindsay is sick.

Like, Oh my gosh, is she going into a flare? And I'm like, everyone, calm down.

Jacqueline: Calm down.

Lindsay: I have a cold. I'm okay. Um, and so because of that, I think I've talked to some people about this too. Like when, because of being so labeled as a sick kid, when I was younger, when I grew up as an adult, like I wanted the exact opposite, I never wanted to be labeled that way, be treated that way.

Like I didn't. I got to a point where I like wasn't telling people, like when I went to college, I didn't tell anyone that I had any autoimmune issues and that ultimately kind of like backfired because like there is a happy medium to it because at the end of the day, like you do have the disease. Like it's not avoidable just cause you [00:15:00] don't say it.

Like nothing's going to change, but I do think there is a mindset around it. And for me, like when I was, when I got the lupus diagnosis is when things really shifted, I feel like it was. It was like I didn't like yes, I had lupus but I wasn't like I wasn't lupus like that

wasn't Yeah. Like it wasn't, it wasn't my identity and I didn't want it to be my identity.

Like I wanted to just be Lindsay. And, um, I think that was part of the reason too, with my healing journey. I didn't, I feel like I didn't talk about it a ton, like at the time, because I just didn't even want people to know that I had that or that I was struggling with that, um, just because of the PTSD from being a kid, but I think that it is important.

There's a happy medium to it. And it is important though, to really disassociate yourself from your conditions. Because I think mentally, like I read a book by Dr. Caroline leaf, who I think you're familiar with. Yeah. [00:16:00] Um, and it's all about like rewiring your brain and how like your thoughts, every single thought you have is basically changing the way your brain works, the way your brain thinks, and even saying something like, um, Oh, like, I don't know.

Like, I'm always sick because I have lupus. Like, even that mindset is going to set how, like, your reality basically takes place. And so for me, it was shifting from that to, I have lupus, but I'm healing and I'm working on this and it's not like my identity. And I think, That really helped me go from, you know, that place of always being labeled as a sick kid and then ultimately doing it to myself, like putting that label on myself and changing it to, well, no, I'm not a sick person.

I'm just a healing person, which I think can sound kind of cliche, but it really helped change my mindset. It helped me. You know [00:17:00] go from also saying negative things like my body hates me My body's trying to take me out like because when you have an autoimmune disease and especially something like lupus Like you have auto antibodies that are working against your body but Even that mindset, like switching that and changing that, I feel like was really significant for me.

And I always try to share that with other people too, who are in like the trenches with their autoimmune disease or their PCOS or whatever they're working on is like. Just focus on the mindset. Like it might feel slightly delusional at first, but how you think ultimately becomes your reality. And I think if more people were told that in the doctor's office, instead of being told like, Oh yeah, this is it.

You have lupus. Like this is your life. Like I think we would see at least a better, you know, level of living for a lot of autoimmune patients is

Jacqueline: so timely because I [00:18:00] literally was just talking about this, like, last night with one of my best friends on the phone, and first of all, I love Dr. Caroline Leaf. Like, she's one of my favorite people in, like, the neuroplasticity space. Um, But one thing I really love too about her is like she has the biblical or like provides the biblical application to like actually how to change and rewire your thoughts.

Um, and I know you're Christian too, Lindsay. And like my faith has been my foundation in, Everything I've done over the past few years and I always keep looking to the Bible and it's like life and death is in the power of the tongue. So everything you just said, right, like the words we speak over ourselves, um, you know, our, ourselves respond to our thoughts and I think the really cool thing is that the more we learn about the mind, The more we look back to the Bible and it's like, well, the Bible already said all of this, 

right? Like it's not new information.

It's just, you know, it's, it's actually really ancient wisdom. And I think that's another thing I love about, you know, everything that you're promoting is herbal remedies are ancient, 

right? [00:19:00] Like these are things that have been used for thousands and thousands of years. And I think it's so funny because when people like that are not familiar with the space here, herbs are here.

Like, homeopathy, like, oh, like, what is that? Like, is that some new type of treatment? And, you know, it's like, no, actually, this has been, oh, this has been, you know, here far longer than any type of pharma pill has been. Um, so with that too, I mean, let's say someone is, new to the world of herbal medicine. They don't know anything, right?

But they want to start using herbs to maybe help address like autoimmune disorders or hormonal imbalances. Where do they start, Lindsay? Like, where did you start?

Lindsay: Um, I would say I always tell people to start in the grocery store because I think that herbalism can come across as something that's so complicated. Like you said, like a new thing, like more of like woo woo medicine. Like it's like, yeah, new age stuff. And it's like, Not at all. It's been around since the beginning of [00:20:00] time.

And it's actually, to me, something that is not complicated once you actually start to learn about it. And something that really is innate to the human experience. I think that I always recommend, or I always say to people, well, what did you make for dinner last night? Like what herbs did you include?

Because I know last night for my dinner, there was oregano, there was rosemary, there was basil, there was ginger. There is 

Jacqueline: I saw that this morning. On your story. I was like, that looked so good.

Lindsay: was a good dinner.

Um, but I think that if you start there, if you start by just examining and thinking about what you're, you know, just using in your day to day life, you can start to see that you're already using herbs and you're already experimenting with herbs.

You might not be doing it for medicinal purposes, but at least you're already using them. Um, and so, I always say like the grocery store has a lot of accessible, easy to access herbs. Um, even if you live more in, you know, like a food desert [00:21:00] area, a lot of times you're still going to be able to find things like rosemary, um, or things like garlic or things like raw honey.

And. You can start very small and minute with herbalism. You can start by, you know, just making a tea with honey and lemon and maybe you add in some rosemary or you add in some peppermint. And I think that Once you start to just understand what you're already doing on a daily basis, you can easily build from that.

And I always recommend starting with the easier kitchen herbs because it is easy to get racked up in more of the herbs that like you'll find online. Like if you're shopping online, The herbs like, um, burdock root or dandelion root or marshmallow or any of these amazing herbs, but ones that like you're not going to find in the grocery store, you're likely not going to find in your backyard.

Um, and you start with like the easier ones and go from there. And I think there [00:22:00] are a lot of great books on herbalism too, that you can start with. When you're progressing and when you're moving from, you know, just Googling things and maybe even reading online eBooks to going from kitchen herbalism to more of the medicinal herbalism.

Um, that's kind of what happened to me. Like I was exposed to herbalism at a young age because my dad was dealing with, um, some liver health complications. And. I would come downstairs at night and he would have like these pots of teas and they would smell so bad. And I was always like, dad, what are you doing?

Um, and it's funny. Cause then like, you know, 10 years later it was

the opposite. Yeah. The only difference is, is like, he didn't care about the taste. He just wanted, you know, the benefits. Whereas I was like, I cannot stomach just drinking Chaga tea because

it's. Horrible. Um, and so when I kind of like became, you know, late teenager, but [00:23:00] especially around that lupus diagnosis, that's when I started really zeroing, zeroing in on herbalism.

And prior to that, I had been focused on a lot of lifestyle changes, like supplementation, even doing functional testing and using targeted supplementation. But for me, I feel like my body really like hit a turning point when I started really studying herbalism and incorporating herbs on a daily basis.

And I think that Um, I feel that way about a lot of people and I know that like a lot of the feedback I get and a lot of the stories that I get from others that have seen my content or seen Simbi and have gone on their own kind of like herbalism journey from there, they also see a huge turning point when it comes to incorporating herbs.

So I always try to emphasize like you should have a holistic approach to healing, um, and a foundational approach with things like lifestyle habits and [00:24:00] supplements, but ultimately I do think herbs provide such a soothing but powerful healing experience for so many people on top of kind of like that firm foundation.

Ben.

Jacqueline: Yeah. I love that. And I feel like, too, even just the ritual of drinking an

herbal tea, again, like, to the point about thoughts, like, if you're drinking something that you think is, Is going to 

balance your hormones. It most likely will, right? Not to say it's placebo, because like, there are studies done that like, there are certain remedies that do, like, reduce testosterone, like spearmint, for example, but again, to the holistic benefit where it's like, body mind.

Lindsay: One thing we're, we're working on like a rebrand for Simbi right now. And one thing I wanted to incorporate into the packaging was some type of like affirmation play where it's like something like when you're drinking your tea, just remind yourself of ABCD, like your body's healing.

This tea is good for you. You're like honoring your body by drinking this stuff like that. Because like you said. [00:25:00] Um, placebo does play a role in all things. Like we can see that in herbal medicine studies, but we can also see that in studies with pharmaceutical drugs on how your mind highly influences actually how your body response response to things.

So that was one thing I was thinking about. I was talking to my sister. It was like, we should try to incorporate that. Cause I don't like our, you know, our teas are not placebo. Like they, they work. I. The herbs that we use are so powerful, but like, why not enhance the experience even more and make it more of a mind and body experiments at 

Jacqueline: Yeah, I love that. No, you hit the nail on the head. And I, I love that you highlighted Simbi because I currently have five packages. Thanks to you that are all are open. I love them. I love the taste. I've been meaning to tell you they're absolutely incredible. Um, and I know this has been like a dream of yours for quite some time.

So it's been really fun just to kind of sit back and just watch you grow. And the packaging is beautiful, but I am curious. Like, when [00:26:00] you first started, did you just combine your own mixes? Like, like, did you have a specific, like, did you start with just one mix, and was it just you and your sister, like, in the back room, like, putting stuff together?

Like, what was the process like for that?

Lindsay: Yeah. So I started Simbi in 2021. And at that point I had been using herbalism for probably like five years and I had a set of blends that I had already been using and that I had already been, you know, giving away to friends, giving away to my neighbors that I like live beside in DC, um, and stuff like that.

So. Symbia actually, like, wasn't a planned thing at all. Um, at the time, I ran a marketing studio, and I, I basically worked with health and wellness brands. And at the same time, I was posting on social media, um, and gaining a small following. And when I started, My sister had been trying to get me on TikTok [00:27:00] for like a year and I'm like, I'm not doing it.

Like I'm not going on this app with like dancing teenagers. Like this is not for me. And she's like, no, come on. You have to think about it from a business standpoint. Like 

just. Yeah, and so finally I was like, okay, fine I watched a few tiktoks and was like, okay, I think I can Come up with some stuff and I started posting about herbalism specifically and that was also my sister too saying like You've spent years sharing recipes But the biggest part of your life and the biggest part of your healing journey is herbalism Like why aren't you sharing more about that?

And so I started sharing about that and I kind of instantly Went viral on tiktok Um, I gained like 400, 000 followers in a few months, which was insane. And, um, one of the first things I shared was a recipe for a liver supporting tea. And I talked about kind of my story with my dad and how, like, he's the [00:28:00] one who had introduced me to herbs because of his liver health.

And I ultimately made this blend for myself because of the relationship between liver and, um, endocrine issues and then the liver and lupus. And I had thousands of emails, thousands of DMs, and comm like, I had like 10, 000 comments on the post being like, Can you make this? Can you just make this? Even though I had posted the recipe for everyone to make.

And so, at that point in time, I was like, okay, like, People want this let's just give it a shot. Um, and so I lived in a studio apartment in dc at the time And I ordered like I placed my first or herb order just from like a small wholesale um shop and put together like 100 bags of tea of like a few different blends and put together a really, you know, simple website and I launched it and we sold out of the blends that I had like within like an hour.

So then I was like, okay, I'm just going to [00:29:00] put up more on the site, put up like 500. Those sold out the same day. I didn't have 500 bags of tea or anything like that. Like, so I recruited like some of my friends, my husband, my sister to help kind of like Get going and at that point We, like, I was so surprised at how well it did that I actually ended up moving home to Massachusetts for the summer because my studio apartment was a studio apartment.

Like, I can't be making tea in there and I enlisted my mom, my dad, my sister, my now, my boyfriend at the time, and now husband to just basically spend the time. Summer packing tea and mailing tea. And it was at that point that I was like, okay, this is like, there's a demand for this and people are loving this.

So that's when I started to take it more seriously and I was like, I have, you know, such a vision for What Simbi can become and what we can do to help people and also how we can convert people to be their own herbalists Um, and so it's [00:30:00] been We just had our three year anniversary uh last or in may From that like soft launch point in time and we went from three blends We have 10 full time blends now.

We have a

bunch of 

Jacqueline: tinctures too,

Lindsay: Yeah, we have tinctures. We just launched our first herbal capsule in May. Our blood sugar balance one, which is just a blend of herbal, um, a blend of herbs that can help basically balance blood sugar spikes. And then we have our second herbal capsule coming next month too. So there's a lot going on and it's been so much fun.

Like, To run Symbi and just be able to interact with so many people and just hear so many amazing stories about people discovering herbs and you know, how it's helped them and yeah. I just, I, I feel so lucky that I kind of like landed in this career path because it definitely wasn't what I had in mind.[00:31:00] 

Jacqueline: Yeah. I love that. But you know what? I think the beautiful thing is that God used all of your experience up until this point. Like you said, you had a digital marketing studio. Like that clearly is a really big component to growing a business. And I'm sure like your expertise there and skills there played a role.

Um, but Yeah, I love that. I have definitely been learning a lot more about herbal remedies over the past few years. Um, in fact, funny story for me, I think I kind of was like first exposed to it when I was, I don't know, maybe like 14 or 15. My dog had liver cancer, and I was like all about, alternative health even then.

So I was like trying all these different protocols on her from like, Um, and then I

Lindsay: Hmm.

Jacqueline: kind of started tapping into other things like dandelion, burdock and like the whole [00:32:00] world. Um. Um. So I think it's super, super interesting. I try to get my mom to, to try some, but it's hard with medications because obviously like you do have to be careful with herbal remedies and medication interactions.

That's kind of the only drawback. Um, but yeah, I'll purchase like in bulk from like Mountain Rose. They're one of my favorite, uh, suppliers. Cause I know you do have to be careful too with like where you purchase.

herbs from. But Yeah. I have like five bags just of like, like the powders though, but I do prefer the leaves.

Cause like, just like you said, you can kind of make your own blends. Um, but yeah, I mean, to the point of like suppliers, can you touch to on what listeners should be looking for when shopping for herbs? Because as with anything, right, like quality is really important. And, and, um, It's also such a saturated space.

Lindsay: I think that the first thing you want to look for, if you're buying from a business or if you're buying from like, if it's a business that's selling. Tea blends or loose leaf [00:33:00] herbs, or if you're buying for someone like Mountain Roads Herbs, you want to look for an organic certification. Um, there are ethical practices around, say, cut and sifted herbs that are not organic, but are still something that I would use, but that takes like a decent amount of digging, talking to the business, getting information from them.

I think that. Like you mentioned the urge space has become really saturated the last like year or so I'd say um, Especially with the rise of tiktok shop. I'm noticing that there are so many tea companies on there and That's I think that's great. Like I am someone who believes that like all like All competition is good for businesses in the same area If you're coming from it from like an ethical standpoint and that's because it's truly just like widening the playing field, right?

It's it's exposing people to more Of what you're trying to share, but I do think i've seen a [00:34:00] lot on especially on tiktok of Blends that are not organic and, um, or people even saying that they're organic, but then you go on the website and there's nothing about an organic certification, email them, they don't have anything.

So I just think that's important. You don't want to be putting herbs that have been treated with pesticides inside your body. Um, I think that it can almost do more of a disservice. And especially when there are so many great places like this. Mountain Rose Herbs, um, Frontier Co op, Star Wars Botanicals, um, Herb Co.

Like, there's a lot of good options that, of places that carry high quality herbs that are safe. And there are also a lot of good, um, tea companies as well that carry organic blends. So, I think for me, I would just suggest focusing on that focus on the organic aspect. I think too if uh, If you want to take it a step further and learn more about like a company's Um [00:35:00] ethos around like the farmers they partner with like that's another great thing to look at a lot of times Places will highlight that if they have you know something In that field that that's important to their business like that will be on their website, too So just really understanding where the herbs are coming from is the most important piece i'd say when Trying to decide like where to buy from.

Jacqueline: Yeah. No, that makes sense. And I'm curious to Lindsay, do you like either currently or like in the future, like, are you going to like get a manufacturer to like help put the blends together? Is this something like you and your family are just like, Continuing to do because I'm sure you're getting like so many orders.

Like how do you handle

Lindsay: Yeah, so we have a warehouse in the town that I live in virginia and We I I got really lucky with being in this area because my sister had gone to college here. And so I just essentially employed like all of her friends, like, [00:36:00] yeah. And it was great because, um, I didn't really have to worry about like warehouse management either.

Like my sister from the get go was in charge of the employees managing their schedules and just like. Figuring out, um, how to get done what we needed done. And so we have explored, like I have talked to a few manufacturers, especially last year as demand like really increased. I talked to a few manufacturers about it, but ultimately we decided we wanted to keep it in house.

I really like knowing, I like knowing where the herbs are coming from. I like knowing which farmers we're working with and. A decision we kind of made this earlier this spring was focusing on that more. As like we grow as a company and as we, you know, move and move into bigger spaces, like obviously the financial side of things is very important.

It's important to grow and have that profit there, but also at the same time, [00:37:00] um, a lot of what we do. Is around, I feel like it's focused on the relationships that we form with people, whether that's our customers or the farmers we're working with and trying to really just deepen that relationship and make that like a focus and something that is important to us.

So like, I know we're excited because next year, like we have a lot of trips planned to visit like different farms and stuff like that and really get to know. Yeah. And it's like, we could easily outsource it, but. I really enjoy that side of things. I like getting to know the people we're working with and having, you know, such a mutually beneficial relationship there.

And, um, it's also just fun. We like Simi is such, I mean, I speak for myself, but I think just from like our conversations with our employees and stuff, it's just a fun place to work. It's all girls. We, um, We're all like slightly [00:38:00] introverted. So I feel like it works well, cause there's like time for chit chat, but then like, there's time to work 

and 

Jacqueline: combination.

Lindsay: yeah.

And like, I work with my, my sister manages all the warehouse stuff. Um, so it's just been so much fun that we don't really want to outsource it either. Like we like having an in house, we like controlling. Being able to control everything to do with the teas whereas with the tinctures and the capsules We have an amazing manufacturer partner and they um They have really helped us like be able to grow to a point if we were doing that in house We would do it at a much slower rate So that's where that's been really beneficial is having that manufacturer relationship

Jacqueline: Yeah, that's so smart. Um, a few thoughts that came to mind. You remind me a little bit of Andrew Salisbury, who's the founder of purity coffee in a sense that like you enjoy that interaction with your suppliers. He also has like so many trips planned to like go visit all these coffee [00:39:00] farms in like Columbia.

I was like, can I come with you? But he enjoys that, you know, like the most. And I understand why, because it really is about relationships. So I love that and then I also love that your sister has played such a big role in simby Um because my sister I forget did I tell you about my sister?

I feel like I have at some point she lived in dc. You guys went to the same church, I think, 

because we were talking about Ben Stewart. 

Yes. Yeah. So she, I don't know if she still goes there. She's like, they're moving. She and her husband are moving to a town home, um, in the next few months.

But yeah, she, she's in DC, but she's so funny because she's a lawyer, but like, she basically is like, she's like, Jacqueline is like, we need to create something. Like, what do you want to create? And I was like, well, I was like this girl, Lindsay, like, Like created a business with her sister and she's like, let's do that.

So like, honestly, like we've been kind of like brainstorming something too, because I feel like to your point, it's so fun when you can create something that is high quality and benefits so many people. Right. Um, so we're kind of like an ideation. Phase right now, but it's inspiring to just like, see [00:40:00] what you guys are doing because 

Lindsay: Yeah. encouraging that it can be done, you know,

And I think too, like, um, so funny. I, my original like career path was also to go the lawyer route and like, that's why I moved to DC and all of that jazz. But ultimately like my health would not allow me to go back to school. Um, which now, like, as you mentioned earlier, like everything works out for a reason.

Um, but I think that like working with my sister and having a job that I genuinely Just like love has also improved my health so much. So I'm

always telling people to like, that's a huge piece of it. Like, I feel like I'm very lucky to have a job that I love. And I think that if more people really did enjoy what they liked, like their life would also be more enjoyable, which is. You know, really important for health.

Jacqueline: So you also have this incredible guide that I will be linking on like all things herbs. Um, and one thing you [00:41:00] spoke about is the different herbal actions of herbs, like how some are adaptogenic antioxidant. Can you touch a bit more on like how that plays a role in your determining which herbs you combine in a certain blend?

Lindsay: Yeah. So when we're looking a lot, as I mentioned before, a few of our blends that we released originally were blends that I was using for years. But now when we're creating new blends, maybe ones that like, weren't so much for me because the original ones were all ones that I use like say leaky gut tea or kidney support tea like those were two blends that I had previously not really used myself like I had a lymphatic blend that's kind of similar to kidney but the kidney I really wanted to tailor specifically like to that organ and so when I'm creating a blend I am approaching it from the standpoint of okay we need obviously for a kidney blend we need diuretic herbs.

So herbs that help the kidneys move along more efficiently [00:42:00] and at a better pace, but also at the same time, we need supporting herbs that are soothing. And I think that with all of my blends and everything that I make, that's kind of like the main focuses I want. I want it to be powerful, but I don't want it to be too powerful.

Um, I want it to be powerful But I also want it to be soothing. So usually I try to pair herbs accordingly So like you mentioned like I always focus on antioxidant rich herbs Just because those are great supporters of any blend we're working on and then also anti inflammatory herbs as well and then Herbs like, say like marshmallow root, I include that in a lot of our blends because it's such a soothing herb and it's so great like when you have it alongside liver support, but it's also so great when you have it alongside like a gut support blend.

So I just try to really zero in on herbs that, you know, are going to work for what I want them to work for. So for like our liver support, for example, we have burdock root, which is amazing [00:43:00] detoxifying, supporting herb. And then we also have dandelion root, another powerful. herb and those are two that are kind of like the main focus.

But then we also have, you know, marshmallow root and red clover in there and ginger root. Um, That really provide the extra step of soothing the liver versus just like really going heavy on the detoxifying processes, because I don't want people getting sick. I don't want people having really like detoxifying reactions.

Like that's, that's not what I'm looking for. I think that. There's a lot of blends, tea blends out there that are like that. So if that's what you're looking for, you can, you know, there are places to find them. Um, but for me, like I want something that's still going to be really supportive for your body and not super aggressive.

I think there's a time and place for aggressive herbs for sure, but Um, in the context of Symbi where we are just introducing people to herbalism, I do not want that happening. So that's kind of how I go about [00:44:00] it.

Jacqueline: Yeah. No, that makes complete sense. Are there any herbs, Lindsay, that contradict each other that should not be used together in a blend? Or like, would you say they all work synergistically?

Lindsay: Um, it depends. Like, there are herbs, like, that can possibly contradict each other. Um,

Jacqueline: Like can one overpower another? Like I don't know if that's like, like herbal wars, like if you put two herbs together, like what is gonna win out?

Lindsay: uh, it depends again, like on the dosage of herbs as well as like when comparing like the type of herb. I think that if you're approaching also a lot of what I kind of incorporate with our blends is an Ayurvedic approach. And they have a huge, that like field of medicine has a huge emphasis on hot and cold herbs.

So. It's a little bit different, but that's more something that like I would focus on versus like how the herbs interact. So it's like, [00:45:00] I'm not going to put ginger in a blend with peppermint because those two, well, depending on what the blend is for, it depends. But like. Say like daily hydration, which is a summer 

blend that's supposed to cool you down.

Thanks. Um, I have it steeping right here right now, but It's you have hibiscus in that blend and that's kind of a cooling herb. That's great for summer I'm not going to add a warming herb to that blend because in that instance those two will cancel each other out. So I'm, really careful with that side of things and then also careful with pairing herbs.

So You We don't want, like, for the liver support tea, like, we're not going to throw in every single herb that's a detoxifier. Like, we're going to throw in some, and then provide, like, the supporting herbs so there isn't too much of a reaction there.

Jacqueline: Yeah. You just made me think of something too. I feel like I wanted to ask you this a long time ago and I just forgot, but what are your thoughts on essiac tea? [00:46:00] Have you heard of that? Because again, like in the cancer space, like there's all these different treatments and alternative therapies people are using.

One of which is essiac tea, which contains like a high amount of like burdock root and like sheep's sorrel and like, there's a lot of anecdotal stories about how it's helped a lot of people. I was just curious what your thoughts were on that

Lindsay: yeah, I think that when it comes to cancer in particular, um, it's kind of like a, it's a touchy subject, obviously, because it's a very serious condition. And the way that it's treated in Western medicine is like, when you get your diagnosis, it's like, doesn't matter if you're stage one, stage four, if it's what type it is, or the immediate reaction is like, we need to start now.

Like we have to do chemo radiation right now. And there's like a huge Intense kind of pressure to just step forward real quick with like different treatments. And so I think that, um, it's kind of similar in the herbal space too. Like I've seen so many [00:47:00] products, um, that kind of say that like they help with cancer.

I know like, Oh, there's a huge falling of like Dr. Sebi, who was someone who worked on cancer research from an herbalism standpoint. And I think that a lot of it comes back to being anecdotal, like you mentioned. And. Wow. We don't have research around like the tea you mentioned specifically, we do have research around the ingredients within it, like burdock root, we have a lot of good research around.

So it's worth like, to me, I, I would never, like, I can't like tell people like what to take or not, what not to take, but I think it is worth like exploring those options, especially if it is something that, you know, isn't going to have. A bad interaction with medicines people are already on but that's a tough point with cancer too is like Typically you are put on medication rather quickly.

So it's like you have such a short window I feel like to experiment with 

other options. So it's kind of a hard [00:48:00] approach

Jacqueline: Yeah, no couldn't agree more with you there And that's been my experience like with my mom over the past almost six years now, but yeah, it's that very quick Okay, let's get on this protocol And I think sadly like it's really not until More advanced stages that people look to other options when it should kind of be the reverse 

Yeah, I think like All those options should definitely be explored initially, and like, if it doesn't have any interaction, like, why not?

You know, and my mom was on Milk Thistle for a while, too. Um, and sometimes it's just about timing, right? Like, if you don't take it with a certain medication, but you still take it within 24 hours, you're fine. 

Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. There is a lot. There's, there's a lot you can do. Um, I feel like it gets pretty overwhelming really quick. Like just with, um, like the options that are out there, like my sister in law had cancer too, and she, like, Just, I know like there were, [00:49:00] you know, kind of like the tea you mentioned or like a bunch of different options, kind of similar to that, like out there where people would say like, Oh, this healed my mom, this healed my sister.

And I think like, that's so good. But I feel like it also 

like people just, yeah. And yeah, it just creates like, I don't know, a lot of excess things to stress about 

Jacqueline: Yeah. It's really sensitive, and then, too, it's like, At least from my experience, it's like when people are like, Oh, like, have you tried

this or have you gone to this place and then you think like, Oh, like, if I did this or went to this place, like the situation will turn out differently, you know, versus realizing, like, again, we don't have that much power to like, alter whatever, like God's plan is in the end not to say you should sit back and do nothing, but I think there's also like, space to realize like, it's not in our control or our 

power. You know, 

Lindsay: So 

Jacqueline: yeah, 

that can be a whole other [00:50:00] conversation

we'll have to have at some point.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Jacqueline: Um, but anyway, Lindsey, this has been so much fun again. I'm so glad I finally got to meet you. Um, you're such a sweetheart and I'm really looking forward to staying in touch, but 

Lindsay: Yeah. 

Jacqueline: can listeners find you and learn more about Drink Simby?

Lindsay: Yeah, so I have um, there's two different places on social media either At wellness with lens which is my social media. It's kind of where I post the behind the scenes of simby and um growing a business and that type of thing and then also um, just things about herbs recipes. It's kind of like a hodgepodge of random things but 

Jacqueline: And really cute pictures of your dog,

Lindsay: Oh, yeah, Roey is on there a lot.

Yeah, he's, um, a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. 

And yeah, he's so cute. I am obsessed with him, which is why he's on there a lot. Um,

Jacqueline: when you first got him, I, I don't have a dog currently, but I really want one, but I was like living vicariously through your stories from like [00:51:00] when he was a baby to 

Lindsay: yeah. Okay, well, I'll tell you, the first six months, he was insane. So, I always tell people, like, when they want to get a dog, I'm like, do it. But, like, just an FYI, like, they're cute, but some of them can be insane. Like, 

my dog, like, he was a nutcase. until he was like eight months old and then he started to slow down, but like he was impossible.

Like we literally could not create him. He would sit in the crate for three hours and cry and bark in our apartment like we live in Florida. Um, but then like my sister got the same breed and 

her puppy was an angel. So it all depends on the

dog. Yeah, yeah, but he's great now. He, he, uh, usually just like sits at my feet while I'm doing

Jacqueline: Oh, and hopefully like he can get out his energy, like with your yard now,

Lindsay: Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's he he definitely does and just like the walks and being with my sister's [00:52:00] dog like 

Is so helpful, but um, 

I love the green so I do recommend like I do recommend it but uh, and then simby is at drink simby on social media and um You can find us on tiktok instagram pinterest Those are like the main platforms.

We're on in our website too. If you are looking for like more in depth, um just topics about herbalism. We do have a blog that I try to post a new blog post at least every week, once a week. Um, about usually in relation to a topic that I'm thinking about or in regards to products that are coming out, stuff like that, but that's kind of like the content heavy space.

So 

Jacqueline: I love it. I will be linking all of those in the show notes And one thing I will say to listeners is that like Lindsay's content is just you make very complex Topics very simple and I think that's why I like your content So [00:53:00] engaging just because your ability to to teach your your teacher at heart, I think too 

And my last question for you Lindsay is what does being well and strong mean to you?

Lindsay: I think it means being healthy and being happy and just um, being grateful for waking up every single day and being able to do what I do surrounded by the people that I am and Having the options that I have to make around my health. So

Jacqueline: Love that. Beautiful. Well, Lindsay, I'm super excited to share this with listeners. I look forward to having you on again at some point yeah And yeah, I'm excited to continue to watch you and Simby grow.

Lindsay: Thanks. I appreciate it. It was so much fun to talk finally


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Jacqueline Genova

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