How To Be WellnStrong

68: How to Improve Your Indoor Air Quality | Mike Feldstein

• Jacqueline Genova • Episode 68

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Did you know that Americans, on average, spend approximately 90 percent of their time indoors, where air pollution levels are typically 2 to 5 times higher than outdoor air pollution levels? If you're interested in improving your indoor air quality, or even just keen on the science of air filtration, this episode is for you.  Join me as I speak with Mike Feldstein, the founder of Jaspr (a cutting-edge air purifier company that is revolutionizing air science and technology), to discuss some of the "secrets" to breathing cleaner air.

A few topics we cover:

  • The difference between indoor vs outdoor air quality (& why indoor air is 5x more polluted than outdoor air)
  • Common sources of indoor air pollution & how to mitigate them
  • Mike’s journey from online marketing to air quality expert and disaster remediation specialist
  • How cooking produces harmful particulates that can spread throughout the house
  • The key areas for placing air filtration units in your home
  • The crucial importance of air filtration in relation to indoor mold since outdoor mold is mitigated by nature's air purifiers like wind and sunlight
  • & So much more


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*Unedited Transcript*
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[00:00:00] 

Jacqueline: So, I was really excited when you reached out to me I think what was it, 4 or 5 months ago at this point about Jasper. I'm A huge fan. It's on right now. But super excited to chat about all things Jasper with you again.

It's a really, really impressive machine, but Before we start, how did you find yourself in this space? I mean, I've just been following your work over the past few months and you're like taking the air industry by storm and I feel like you've become quite the expert on air quality. So yeah. I mean, how did you get into this space?

Mike: So how did I get into this? My background was in wildfire smoke floods and mold

and adjacent to that air quality consulting. So we would go into people's homes if they were sick at home and didn't know why. Most people never have the aha moment. Most people don't know air quality testing and air quality consulting even exists.

That's not something people are even aware of. Like, I think if you, if you ask like a hundred people off the street, how many people have [00:01:00] got their air tested? Probably less than 1 percent almost certainly. And I would, so we'd go into people's homes. And the way they would even think to look into air testing, is typically their journey would be, they would be chronically unwell.

Maybe bad sleep, maybe inflammation, maybe allergies, psoriasis, skin stuff, fatigued, just unwell. And then they go on a vacation, or on a camping trip, and they feel great! They're like, it's gone, I'm healed! And then they come back home and they're back down to their baseline. And then some of them have this aha moment.

Is my home making me sick? And likely they've already gone down the path of. Maybe allergies, maybe meds, maybe naturopaths and supplements and tried all the stuff and nothing seems to be working. And I like the quote, if you don't detox your home, you can't detox your body. Because it makes sense. If you're staying in a toxic [00:02:00] setting, then how are you, even if you're detoxing, you're also retoxing.

So, I was on that side, we'd go in, assess people's homes, and generally what was considered good air, It's like if you call like a furnace repair guy or air conditioner like an HVAC technician, they carry a gas monitor on their hip. But all they're looking for is carbon monoxide. They're looking for what will kill you tonight, not what's slowly killing you over the next 20 or 30 years.

All because of like, I guess liability, you know, they're just looking for a gas leak. Meanwhile, there's tons of gas leaks that aren't as acute as carbon monoxide, but they're a little bit more lurking there, hiding slowly, chronically getting you. So, Yeah, after years of remediating homes from mold, floods, and consulting on air, I saw a huge disconnect, and often people were eating organic produce, they were exercising multiple times a week, they had filtered water, but they were [00:03:00] breathing horrible air, moldy air, lots of pollen, VOCs, so I realized that In order for me to be as impactful as I could and raise air awareness, I needed to get to the other side of actually creating solutions as opposed to just being the guy who would come to your house, wave a magic wand and tell you your air is bad because a hundred percent of homes had poor air.

And then the solutions for people weren't very practical. It was like. Got your home, but most people didn't have physical black mold. They just had high airborne levels of mold. So it was really more of an air problem than it was of a surface problem. So I decided in 2017 to start developing commercial grade air purifiers, but with the aesthetic and performance.

That the commercial grade performance, but with the aesthetic of something that you would want in your home, there was, when we were doing mold and floods and fires, we would use something called air scrubbers, big, large industrial [00:04:00] machine. So they could clean the air amazingly, but they were so loud and so large and so ugly.

That they weren't effective. And that's why Jasper is big. I set out to create something that was smart, quiet, effective, and pretty. So yeah, it got, it went from the restoration and air quality consulting, and that led me down this path. I did not think I would be here talking to you. I thought we would be specifically dealing with mold and floods and fires forever, and I'm grateful that we've crossed over into the more broad wellness world.

Jacqueline: Yeah. That's so fascinating. I love how you're so passionate about it too. And like, you're just, it seems like you just are a voracious reader and researcher. I mean, again, you're just a wealth of information, but yeah, aesthetically you hit the nail on the head with the Jasper. I think it looks beautiful.

Um, and it's, it's silent. It's silent at night. I'll put it on. I don't even hear it. Uh, and I know that's been a huge issue with other folks about, you know, when they use air purifiers, oftentimes it's a little more loud than they otherwise would like it to be. Yes, exactly. Um, anyway, Mike, you [00:05:00] mentioned some of the, the sources before, but what are some of the primary sources of, of indoor air pollution,

Mike: So yeah, you basically have indoor air pollution and outdoor air pollution. Outside is your pollution, factories, restaurants, car exhausts, the rubber from the tires on cars. Like, anything that you ever smell, it's because you're putting it inside you. So, allergies. Mold, et cetera. The list goes on and then indoor stuff is also mold.

It's cooking. Cooking's probably at the top of the list. Cleaning pets. And also, um, yeah, mold's an interesting one because mold can mold is natural and it's organic outside. Mold is not very harmful because we have the sun. And the wind and the rain, whereas mold indoors, it's trapped inside our tight homes.

And then we also have VOCs inside [00:06:00] and VOCs is a catch all term for volatile organic compounds, which basically means all chemicals and gases. So when you, whether you paint your house or you get new furniture or even new clothing or a new countertop or cabinets or hairspray, anything in your home, And usually the manufacturer doesn't really give it enough time to breathe.

So whenever I buy like new furniture, I always put it in our garage, open the garage door and let it breathe for like a couple of weeks before we enter introduce it into our home. So yeah, those are kind of the high level. Things that can pollute your air and or

Jacqueline: Yeah, no, that's so wise. I mean, nowadays you obviously see there's a lot of furniture companies that make zero low VOC furniture, but They're so, so expensive. So that's a really great, uh, hack, right? To let your furniture sit outside for a while and let it off gas. Interestingly, too, uh, in college when I got like a new headboard, I read that baking soda can actually help, uh, mitigate VOCs.

Have you heard that?[00:07:00] 

Mike: I haven't but I know baking soda works kind of like carbon and it absorbs things So that would actually make a lot of sense. I'm gonna dig into that a little bit. I've not heard that before

Jacqueline: Yeah.

Mike: I'm also a little bit skeptical of low VOC products.

Um, I don't have any concrete, I haven't done any extensive studying on it, but I know there's low VOC.

And then sometimes they say there's no VOC. And to me, it just feels like when vegan food started getting very commercialized and I'm like, you know, I have my, my, my sister and there's a few vegans in my family. And I'd be like, so what are you guys eating? They're like veggie chicken. They're like vegan.

I'm like, but no, no. What are you eating? Or it's like, it's gluten free. I'm like, but what is it? And, and I'm like, all you're doing is telling me what it's not, but what is it? And all they would continue, they didn't have a clue. And then you look at the ingredients. It's like, that's just a ton of different chemicals.

So I would, I am curious and I have some more research to do here, but when something is low [00:08:00] VOC, what are you replacing it with? Um, what is considered low from, cause everything that I've seen so far with anything to do with lab testing standards and regulations, it's considered low. Everything is like, so loopholable.

So it's like, we went low on this one controlled thing, and used five times more of this other thing. So, I'd like to learn more. It's not like you just remove the chemicals and the paint still works. So, what are we replacing it with, how does that work, is something that I'm just a little bit skeptical about, and I intend to dive deeper down this path.

Jacqueline: Yeah. No, we'll have to have another episode just dedicated to that topic. You should check out SavvyRest. Uh, that's a furniture company. They also create mattresses that, um, I think is pretty, pretty high quality. And also too, they don't, um, I always look to see if the actual piece is like finished with something.

Right. Um, so there's like zero finishes on the wood, um, which I think also kind of plays a big role in the VOC factor, but, uh, yeah, again, so many different companies out there, but [00:09:00] yeah. Best part is we could also mitigate VOCs, right? With air filtration. Um, and it just Yeah. Well, that was my other question too for you, Mike.

Like, is there a certain time of year where indoor air is perhaps like more harmful than not? Like summer versus winter or fall?

Mike: I'd say absolutely. So in a few ways, allergy season is going to be just more pollen, you know, spring, usually here in Texas, probably where you are to allergy season could be year round, various types of trees of different seasons. So in the spring, you typically have allergy season. In the summer, you have wildfire smoke season.

Jacqueline: Hmm.

Mike: Um, in the summer, you usually have overly air conditioned air, which can be just really dry and really artificial. And because you're trying to help your AC keep up, you're often running it all the time, keeping doors and windows extra shut, extra tight. And then in the, uh, In the [00:10:00] winter, um, it can be very dry air.

So that's when you would typically want to add humidity to your indoor environment, but yeah, each season kind of has its own various type of issue. So it's somewhat dependent on location. A lot of places that are very hot and humid in the summers also then have more mold issues and condensation issues.

So I would say it's not just like winter is bad or summer is bad. It depends. Like if you're on the West coast, yeah. Wildfire season is your most chronic problem that you're faced with. So different seasons and different regions all have their own things, but no, I've, I've, the best air I've ever seen was in Vancouver Island.

Um, Costa Rica had some pretty good air too. Basically, like when you're.

Jacqueline: Surrounded.

Mike: by massive

trees and you're far from cities. is good. Not very practical for most people, but you can get like there. You don't really, if you live on like Vancouver Island or I just use Vancouver Island and Costa Rica has two examples, but somewhere where [00:11:00] like, you don't really even need doors and windows.

You don't really need air filtration very much unless, um, you have allergies. In that case, you still want to filter things out. But But broadly, yeah, the best air is clean air.

Jacqueline: No, that makes sense. Here's another question to you for you, Mike. So I've been using the Jasper, I want to say for what, three or four months now, and I have it pretty much constantly on. But I am one of those people who I love to have my windows open, right? Especially as we're starting to get some of this brisk fall air now.

So with that, I mean, like, if I were to keep my Jasper on all night, right? And then let's say at like 8 or 9 a. m. I turn it off and I open my door, and I want air to filter through my apartment. Does that necessarily negate The effects of the Jasper overnight. Like how does that work? How quickly does air filter?

Mike: Before I answer that, I have a question. In Greenville, South Carolina, have people started preparing for Halloween yet?

Jacqueline: Yes, they have. In fact, I was actually walking through, there's a [00:12:00] neighborhood I'll take you to and you can visit. It's called McDaniel's and it's just all these mansion homes and half of them go, actually more than half go pretty crazy with decorations. So I was walking yesterday evening and already started to see a few houses, but

I was Like, growing up in Canada, like, October, like, October 10th, maybe ish, is when you start to see people buying pumpkins and shopping for Halloween

Mike: stuff. And here.

and, not here! So I'm like, is this an Austin thing, a Texas thing, or just like, a Southern thing, or an American thing? I don't know, but yeah. As of, like, September 1st, like Labor Day started and everybody's buying pumpkins already.

And I've also learned fascinatingly, um, kind of air related, sort of, but not really pumpkins. You can't open them up. You don't cut them until like right before, because in Canada, if the pumpkin was, you could leave your pumpkin cut open, it wouldn't rot because it was cold. But here. You need to really like not carve the [00:13:00] pumpkin until close to the actual date.

But I've been blown away by how festive people are. And like last year was like November 1st and Halloween went down and Christmas went up. I like it. It's very festive, but I was curious if that applies to South Carolina life as well. And it

does. It certainly does.

So your question was windows. How does windows impact?

Jacqueline: I just like, I basically just don't want to feel like I'm using this air filter all night and then I open my door in the morning and I let all the fresh air in. Like, does that impact, does that

Mike: No, they should work. They should work in tandem because you want fresh air and you want clean air and Jasper will not make fresh air. It cannot create oxygen. It doesn't bring in air from the outside. So you want to get a certain amount of fresh air in your home and then you want to filter that air. So in your bedroom, for example, do you have your Jasper in your living

room area or in your room. I have a relatively small apartment and I [00:14:00] know it filters. What is the square footage to that Jasper filters?

okay, I'll do Windows, and then I'll do square

Jacqueline: So many So, I got you. I'm here, I'm here, I'm here to answer all of them. So, Windows, also, it's not black and white. Like, I love having, like, a couple of windows cracked. Also, seasonal dependent, here in Texas in the summer. I'm less likely to do that because our air conditioner can't keep up.

Mike: Um, I also am one when I Google, like I often Google the outdoor weather. I mean, I'm pretty in tuned with it and have a good idea of what it is, but I often check what the air quality is outside. And if it's a clean air day, I'm way more likely to open my windows and bring the fresh air in. But if the air quality index is bad that day, whether it's pollen, pollution, smoke.

Then I'm more likely to, it's like the, the recirculate button in your car. That button is awesome when you're driving through a construction site or if it's polluted, but you don't want that all the time because you want some fresh air in your life,

in your car. a [00:15:00] great point.

Um, cause also if you don't, you could get really high carbon dioxide levels, which are very, very harmful.

And, um, for that reason, a good mixture of opening windows. Also, another way to vent is using your, your range hood. Well, for you, your, um, your microwave vent. So I would open up that cabinet above the microwave and see if it's just venting in there, if it actually vents outside. If it actually vents outside, then that's another way.

It's the same thing as opening your window is running a bathroom fan or a range hood because it's, there's a principle of error that says one CFM out equals one CFM in. So often the best way to get fresh air in is by dumping the stale air out your home's like pressurized. So as you put the air out, new air will come into your home to refill it.

Um, but yeah, you should definitely keep using windows. And, uh, you know, if somebody's like sleeping in a bed, it just depends. If it's a polluted day, [00:16:00] close them. If it's not, crack them open. And for your other question, you asked about,

Jacqueline: Um, I can't recall now what was my other question. It'll come to me.

Mike: okay.

Jacqueline: Speaking of cooking, though, I mean, you just mentioned how that could be a source of, uh, um, You know, not so best air quality. So aside from having an air filter, what are some things that people can do to help mitigate, like the off gassing from, from cooking?

And it's so funny too, because again, never really noticed that once I got my Jasper, I'd be cooking like, I don't know, even just, just eggs or steak or something. And you would see the color go from green to orange and recognize that, you know, there's been a change in the air quality just from, from cooking.

Mike: Yeah, air is like, more like water than people realize. So, a fun experiment anybody can do is like, You could literally fill a bathtub or a bowl of water. And you know, let's say, let's say you filled a bowl with a gallon of water, three liters, and then you put a [00:17:00] couple, just a couple drops of food coloring in there.

Within just a few seconds, that water is all equally distributed. It's all a little bit red. It literally, perfectly equally distributes in seconds. It's not like the red stuff stays where you dropped it and floats around. It all equally distributes, which is why when you cook, whether you have a small place or a huge place, you smell the food everywhere.

It's literally that the particulates from the food have mixed with all of the air very quickly. That's why you can smell it. No matter where in the place you are, it fills all of the air. It's not just like that little bit of smoke that you see rising. That's why you see it everywhere. So yeah, even if you're eating grass fed grass finished steak with organic oils, it's still going to make Jasper go crazy. And that is because what happens is two things. So when you have high heat and protein, you get something called pH, which is polysilic aromatic hydrocarbons. And it's the same thing when I [00:18:00] was restoring homes after wildfire smoke. That would be in the air. Um, it's because it's like a chemical reaction to the heat and the protein.

Also, when you eat food, your digestive system breaks it down, pulls out the nutrients you need, filters out the rest. When you breathe food, you don't have a digestive system, so it really can irritate your respiratory system and cause inflammation just because you can eat something, it doesn't mean you can sniff it. Um, and that's essentially what's, what's happening. Look, if you smell food, it's cause you're breathing in the food. Um, just the, the aerosolized version of it. So some things that, so some things that people can do, um, for cooking is first of all, like always use your range hood when you're cooking, at least on fan speed.

One, you don't always have to have it on the loudest setting, but like range hoods, aren't just for bacon. In fact, It's on Jasper's roadmap, not for a while because we're really focused on what we're doing now. [00:19:00] But I really want to create a better range hood that automatically detects CO2 and cooking particulate.

Because like, how crazy is it? Your Jasper is smart mode. You don't have to touch it. Your range hood doesn't have smart mode. Imagine if you just started to cook and smart mode would turn on and vent it out for you. And then when it's, it doesn't detect CO2. particulate anymore, it goes back down to baseline.

In fact, and when it detects nothing, I want it to turn into a scrubber. So you wouldn't need any air purifier in your kitchen or living room. The range hood would act as your air purifier.

Jacqueline: That would be

Mike: Yeah. Yeah, we need that.

Jacqueline: My mom would love that. She was, honestly, Mike, my mom was always good with that. So we had a gas stove growing up in our house. I mean, right now I have electric. I feel like most homes now or apartments rather have electric, but my mom would always tell us, she's like, make sure you have the vent fan on whenever you are cooking, especially with a gas stove.

So clearly she was, she was right about that.

Mike: She is. So definitely a [00:20:00] gas stove, but also people need to make sure your range hood is actually venting outside. So a lot of the time it's going just into the cupboard above, into your drywall cavity, like into another room. It's really bad where a lot of range hoods are venting out to

Jacqueline: Who designed that? Like what that cancels out one thinks about.

Mike: Even in a home, even in 3 million custom homes, you'd be shocked. Or even like subdivision homes. The last thing they think about is the mechanical system. They just kind of bang in the air system. Once everything else is done, really, when you're designing a home, I think you should be thinking, how are these people going to live?

Breathe drink. What about their lighting? What about their EMF? And then let's design the home and the floor plan around that. That's not the case. They designed this nice floor plan and then they go, where are we going to stick the furnace and how are we going to run the vents and maybe a little bit of energy efficiency, but no one's thinking about air quality when they're building homes.

Jacqueline: Mike, have you heard of healthier homes? Jen and Rusty Stout? [00:21:00] I'll have to connect you with them. I had them on, they were like probably among the first guests I had on my show, but they essentially have, uh, Rusty used to be in construction. Jen suffered from mold, like poisoning essentially during her twenties and they ended up getting married, but they created a Construction company called healthier homes, and that's essentially what they do is they create custom healthy homes, and it's fascinating.

I mean, to what you're saying, they do the complete opposite of what builders today do where they really design the home around air, water, mitigating EMS. I mean, the homes are still beautiful, but it's just fascinating to just see their whole building plan. So, yeah, you'd like what they're doing.

Mike: And it's crazy that when you have a lot of experience with construction as well, and when you are, there's not a price for thoughtfulness,

thoughtfulness and creativity. It's more expensive to remedy a home and retrofit everything later than just building it right the first way. And especially, it's not just for custom [00:22:00] homes.

There's no reason a subdivision builder, you know, let's say they're building 2000 homes, they only have to be thoughtful once. They basically build the same home 2000 times over and over and over. So being a little bit more thoughtful for how air is moving and how water is filtered, they're buying everything in bulk.

There's really not a good excuse other than lack of awareness and then lack of consumer demand. So when people start realizing that their home is a big part of their health and they stop buying unhealthy homes, it's going to, so I'm trying to go to like a lot of conferences now and speak to architects and builders and developers.

And then also do podcasts so we can have some awareness top down and bottom up. So homeowners can demand a better product and builders can build a better product. So I'm glad you had them on, on the pod. I'd love to talk to them. Are they local to you?

Jacqueline: Yeah, they're in Texas. So actually close to you.

Mike: Perfect. I would

Jacqueline: There you go. I'll come visit. I'll come visit y'all and we'll have a whole meeting together. But, uh,

Mike: people are always asking me, uh, for help building homes. So I would, I am a very good source of leads when it comes

to healthy home

Jacqueline: Yeah. [00:23:00] There's a big, there's a big demand for it. I mean, there's a lot of people on the East Coast, Jen was telling me, that are calling them literally requesting their help, but they just like, I mean, obviously you need to have someone oversee that entire construction process.

And I think just. Yeah. They're only two people, right, and they only have one team, so I think they're trying to expand beyond Texas, 

Mike: well, I think the best thing you can do is talk about it. I actually have a podcast coming out in January called good business. And it's all about businesses that do good things. You know, they could have just built crappy generic homes and they could have still sold lots of them and made a lot of money, but by actually slowing down and building a way higher quality product, you can make a lot of money doing that too.

In fact, there's unlimited demand by doing it. Like for example, if I made a cheap 99 air purifier on Amazon, The business would be way bigger in the short term, um, selling generic stuff. That's easy competing on price, but instead by actually creating the best [00:24:00] possible solution, you know, educating people, having lifetime warranties, doing all these things, um, I believe that a great business is built, but like, you don't have to do it.

Or, you know, the primally pure girl, Bethany or Allison from branch basics, they could have just sold crappy cheap chemicals, but I actually think primally pure is like my favorite example, because this is a business that makes great products that work good. My wife loves them. So they have great products.

They have a regenerative agricultural farm. They have Airbnb's on the farm. So You can go and do like, I didn't know that! you could do wellness retreats at the regenerative farm. So what, what a cool business, purpose filled business where they make great products on the land, share it, accommodations, community education.

She goes on podcasts. So like, I, the attention to the podcast is going to be to shine the light and that will be great for the business, but there's a lot of air breathers out [00:25:00] there. A lot of water drinkers. So these things are huge, infinite demand. So there's no scarcity. There's no fear. Like even if a hundred more people start building homes, like they are healthy homes, they're still going to have unlimited demand.

So by sharing what you're doing, open sourcing the playbook. I think is the best path forward. So my, my intention will be to shine the light and show some developers and builders who might themselves have mold illness that they're not aware of. And first build themselves a good home, reap the benefits, live in a, in a healthier home.

Same thing. I'm actually tomorrow. I'm flying to Miami for a hotel conference and I'm going to have hotels applying to be Jasper, uh, wellness hotels. So. I'm going to give 20 Jaspers to three hotels, only hotels that are already focused on wellness. Um, they don't have to be like full biohacker hotels, but they have a commitment to clean water to low toxic products.

Um, not using horrible fragrances. [00:26:00] And we can literally afford to give them the Jaspers for free, because we know that whenever somebody sleeps in a Jasper bedroom, they have the experience, a large percent of them then want it for the home. So it's like, By giving the gift of clean air to the hotel, thousands of people per year are going to be having healthier sleeps, not breathing all those chemicals and not breathing the mold, being more well rested, a small percentage of them, or maybe a big percentage can then buy it for their home, which will allow us to keep giving more free clean air.

Um, so I would love to chat with him for sure. Um, Yeah. Healthy home building, I think is, is the way to go. And if not, everybody is in the market for a custom home when, when you, but for those who are not Jasper is a great solution for those who are looking to build a healthy home. We need more builders out there.

There's such a shortage of thoughtful design and building, which brings us back to the cooking. Um, The range hoods suck. Um, and everybody should take a tissue, turn on your vent and see if it [00:27:00] even works more than half the time. It won't even pull the tissue up. It doesn't even work. So you want the vent to, if the vent's not like pulling the tissue, yeah, a lot of suction, um, it should like grab it from you, like two or three inches below.

If it's not doing that, it doesn't work. And then if it is doing that, make sure it vents to a good place. Same thing for your bathroom fans. Make sure your bathroom fan pulls a tissue up and then make sure your bathroom fan is venting outside. Often it vents into the attic. So what happens is you shower, you turn on your bathroom fan, it dumps all the moisture in the attic, and then you get a bunch of mold up there.

Jacqueline: Hm. classic.

Interesting. How does that, how does that work with apartments or like multi level complexes? Does that just go to the apartment above?

Mike: no, a good apartment will still vent outside, like near the balcony or up to the, the best would actually be if all of the, if it was like kind of like stacked plumbing, so like how many floors are in your building?

Jacqueline: Five.

Mike: [00:28:00] So guaranteed the bathrooms are going to be all stacked above each

other. it's called stacked pLumbing and it's, it's the right way to do it.

So stacked ventilation is also the good way to do it. So air rises. So the best thing that you could do is like your air should go up and then the person above you should mix with it. And then all of all of your air should all vent out of the roof of the building. That would be the best design. But yeah, you still want the air to go outside, whether that's your, your dryer.

Your oven, your bathroom fans, your range hood, that should all be vented out of the building.

Jacqueline: Yeah. Mike, you mentioned, uh, You mentioned hotels, but have you considered apartment complexes, too, for this initiative you're doing?

Mike: I haven't because unfortunately I've spoke to a buildings and condominiums in the past and things like that. The building doesn't want to pay for it.

They're kind of fairly ruthless cost saving machines. Um, so unless there was like specifically [00:29:00] like, and even I've seen like wellness condos. Want to sell it to their guests, but really it might work in some of these new buildings where like they're selling furnished buildings, but broadly speaking, the reason we made Jasper portable, we call it plug and purify is because even if someone is a tenant.

They can still control their own destiny with and without property management or doing it for you. Um, and that has been the issue. Whereas with the hotel, they have a much greater vested interest to compete on health. I mean, they're charging like 500 a night. So, and the number one () request we get from people is can you please make a tiny air purifier we can travel with.

Jacqueline: I was 

just, I was just gonna ask you that. Yeah. You 

Mike: we can't, you can't. 

Jacqueline: that? Mm hmm. Mm

Mike: So when you see air purifiers, you'll see, they all are like, Oh, we filtered 99. 9 percent of particulates under 0. 3 microns or 0. 1. That's all kind of marketing hoopla. Almost every filter will filter [00:30:00] over 99%. That's just per pass. So I'm holding a water bottle here.

If this was a HEPA filter that filtered 99%, but because it's so small, it's not cleaning very much

air. It can't move enough air to be effective. So it's like, would you rather have 99 percent of 1 or 95 percent of 5? So what matters with air filtration is size. You can't use a golf cart. To pull your trailer or your boat, no matter how powerful, like a sedan is, you need the size and the engine and the weight to pull something significant in size.

So if we were to make a tiny air purifier, we'd be like everybody else making one that doesn't really work, which made me remember. Uh, so I'll finish cooking. And then I actually remember the question you asked above, which how many square foot does Jasper cover? And I'll answer, I'll answer how many square feet.

Everything covers. So the other cooking tips, so make sure your range hood works. When you're boiling stuff, if you can, use the back burner, not the front burner. The back burner, the, the, the vent [00:31:00] captures way more particles when you're using the back burner than the front burner,

because it's more directly underneath it.

Um, you, If you have like a nonstick pan, changing it every year or so, I mean, not having nonstick is also a good solution, but if you do have nonstick, people don't realize those expire after a couple years. Um, so that's a low hanging fruit and then being mindful of what you're eating in the oils. I mean, things that have a higher smoke point are going to put less stuff into your air. And then opening windows if the temperature and the air quality permits it is also amazing because you're increasing ventilation. And then of course, filtering your air is good, which is why your Jasper gets angry every time you cook. Fun fact, if you have an air quality sensor set up, let's say you had no Jasper and you cook, your air quality can stay bad for a few days.

Jacqueline: That's crazy.

Mike: now, if you have Jasper running, it probably takes between [00:32:00] 10 and 30 minutes to get back to the green. If you had no filtration at all, it gets It could take a few days. And where does it go? It goes into your carpet, your clothing, your bedding, your walls. 

Jacqueline: Hmm. 

Mike: absorbs into all of your materials.

It's not like it leaps.

Jacqueline: Quick question for you on that point, Mike. So let's say someone, you know, doesn't have a Jasper, no air filtration. What are your thoughts about like air cleaning house plants? And I'm sure you've heard about NASA's clean air study and it found that like plants can be effective at improving air quality, um, by absorbing like CO2 and removing pollutants and whatnot.

There were a few like the spider plant,

snake

plant, Jade plant, like several of them. How, how effective actually are they? Like, have there been any studies on them?

Mike: I used to quote that study all the time, unfortunately, um, because it's never been recreated and many people have tried to recreate it when you put NASA in front of anything, it adds instinct credibility. However, it's never been recreated. [00:33:00] And many people have tried also, it makes me think of the EPA standards.

When you see like Lysol or Clorox, and it's like, it kills 99. 99 percent of bacteria. It can literally be, or like Roundup or something like that. Like it could be one square inch that they cleaned. So the reason the percentage of cleaning is so high is because the area was so small, it was so easy to be perfectly effective.

Now, when you look at that plant study. Was the room the size of a little tiny box? Because I've used 5, 000 plus air quality testing probes and put plants into the room and nothing changes. So trees, however, are the best air filtration. But the ones that you, you would literally need like a forest in your home.

And if you had one, you would have a ton of mold pests, humidity issues. So plants are great [00:34:00] for vibe and like Feng Shui. And I think they can decrease stress and they're calming to be around. But if you put a Jasper or sorry, a plant in your room and you cook and you clean The odors aren't going to go away.

The smoke's not going to dissipate. So unfortunately not that effective in an indoor use case. And for the square footage thing, square footage is unfortunately the wrong way to think about it.

Everybody wants to think in the lens of Amazon filter boxes, like price, cheap, extra large room, 600 square foot plus.

This makes sense for a TV when you're like 45 to 55 inches, where like size is the only thing that matters. And, and it's, it's very binary. It's clear. With, Air, air doesn't care about square feet. It cares about cubic volume, because if you have seven foot ceilings versus 14 foot ceilings, it's literally double the [00:35:00] volume of the air in the room.

So talking about square footage, like it's not a Roomba. It doesn't care about square feet. That doesn't, if you had 50 foot vaulted ceilings, Versus 10 foot ceilings, it's five times more surface area. So, so our cubic volume. So yeah, square footage is already just like the wrong way to think about it. Now, people want to.

I was recently in San Jose at a Target, and I looked at an air purifier. I was walking by their air purifier section, and I was shocked and appalled. They have this air purifier that is advertising the never change filter. First of all, like, that's not how this works. You need to change car filters, air filters, literally by the nature of the filter it needs to be

changed. And, like, what happens when it's filled with disgusting particles? And then on the fine print it says five years, which is a lot. also not really reasonable at all.

Jacqueline: How often does Jasper have to be? Uh, 

Mike: months. [00:36:00] six months. The HEPA portion could probably last a little bit longer, six, nine, 12 months, but the carbon, the activated carbon is what absorbs the VOCs and the gases and the odors.

And that's the part that is going to get dissipated. Now, when I used to do mold and fire and flood jobs, We literally had to take our filter out between jobs and put it in an air sealed bag. Because even if we weren't running the filter, the carbon was still absorbing air, the ambient air. So unless someone is like seasonal in Florida for two months a year, and when they leave for those two months, they would need to like airtight seal their filter.

So that's why six months, we have a three in one filter. We keep it really simple for people. You just change that one filter every six months. You don't have to think about it. So yeah, square footage is just not cool. There was this that same thing I talked about the never change filter It's like extra long extra large filter multi room filter [00:37:00] 1, 400 square feet. It's crazy. That's so uncool because now someone's gonna buy that that's suffering from allergies or suffering from asthma or having breathing and respiratory issues And they're gonna be like air purifiers don't work. 

This would be like trying to use a Brita to filter your pool.

It's or a Berkey. It's not like the Berkey didn't work, but it's not designed tens of thousands of liters of water.

It will work 0 percent for a pool. So unfortunately a lot of brands. over promise and under deliver because they want to get the sale and they're not looking to build long term educational relationships with people. That is frustrating. So if Jasper can, and also when they say covers 1, 400 square feet, does covers mean make the air 5 percent cleaner or 90 percent cleaner?

What does covers even mean? [00:38:00] So it's like, let's say you put a space heater in a closet or in a small bedroom. It's going to cover the room really well. But if you put the space heater in a large house. It's not going to heat it very much. It might heat the home by like one degree, but is it covering it?

What does cover mean? It's a, it's an ambiguous term, which is what people use. So I don't, I just am fully rejecting all of that language, which is why I like podcasts. So Jasper, Moves probably 10 times more air than that little air purifier at target. So based on that, we would be saying that Jasper covers 14, 000 square feet.

That's crazy talk.

It doesn't. So Jasper is excellent in a room up to about a thousand square foot with eight foot ceilings. Now, once you start having more doors, dividing the space, it changes the equation. Now, if somebody has like a house with a forced air furnace or an air conditioner, and it's mixing the [00:39:00] air.

It does contribute to the whole space, but broadly speaking, I like to look at it as good, better, best. So good table stakes is having one Jasper in your bedroom 

Jacqueline: In your 

Mike: that way in your bedroom, because you spend one third of your life in there in that room.

Jacqueline: So I should move my Jasper, 

Mike: I would, I would, I would move it. I'd put it in your bedroom and during the day you could put it on smart mode.

Also, do you prefer silence when you sleep or do you prefer white noise?

Jacqueline: White noise.

Mike: So most people use Jasper on Fanspeed 2. 

I've actually even, I've even moved up to Fanspeed 3 now.

Jacqueline: haven't experimented with those yet.

Mike: oh man, so we just did a sleep study. So we gave over 100 people Jaspers in exchange for one month of their Aura sleep data.

Jacqueline: Can I be included in the next one? I just got an 

aura ring. 

Mike: Yeah, you can. So the data was pretty awesome. So 83 percent of people had significantly improved sleep

Jacqueline: Wow.[00:40:00] 

Mike: and people have various factors. You know, someone didn't sleep at all, but like they had a child or they're a shift worker. So, 

um, we didn't want to omit people from the study. So 83 percent of people had, 

Jacqueline: What were the primary factors you looked at? Like REM 

Mike: Yeah, so the secondary factors were REM and latency and efficiency scores, but we wanted to keep it really, really simple and digestible for people. So the primary factors that we looked at was total time asleep

Jacqueline: Okay.

Mike: and deep sleep.

We just wanted to keep it really simple. Yeah, cause like HRV means nothing to someone who doesn't track their sleep.

Uh, but time of sleep also latency is how long does it take to fall asleep?

So 83 percent of people had improved sleep. The average person was sleeping like 25 minutes more per night, 25, 26, which equates to like three hours a

week and 18 percent deeper sleep. So most people sleep between an hour and [00:41:00] an hour and a half of deep sleep per night, which probably correlates to REM quite a lot.

Um, so. people who would normally sleep, you know, like, but yeah, 18 percent more deep sleep to like, irrespective of the total amount, and then about five or six minutes of latency. So people were falling asleep five minutes quicker, the restlessness, there was a bit of a trend towards it, but I didn't want to have like 10 factors of this, it would be too much information. So the, the big takeaways was about 25 more minutes sleep per night. 18 percent deeper sleep, 83 percent of people slept more and that people were falling asleep five minutes quicker.

And the biggest improvement, some people who had critical sleep, like four or five hours a night, some of those folks were sleeping 40 to 50 percent deeper because 18 percent was the average, which was largely pulled up.

by like people who really have trouble sleeping. And if you think about it, most people have mold, pollen, allergies, dust mites, hair particles, skin cells, and they're [00:42:00] breathing it in all night long. So when you can filter that out, all of a sudden your body can go parasympathetic, enter a rest and recovery state, and not be playing defense all night long, so your body can enter healing time without all of these toxins bombarding you.

So yeah, I would definitely put your Jasper in your bedroom on fan speed two or three if you like that much noise on dark mode. It'll be a big difference. And then because you're an apartment during the day, just leave the door open and put it on smart mode. It'll still help clean the air in your whole place.

If the noise is not a factor in the main area, you can keep it on fan speed too, but smart mode is great during the day. So it will respond to cooking and it will, even though your bedroom is a little bit away from your kitchen, it's still going to fill the air everywhere. And it's still going to clean all of the air in your common area by putting it in your kitchen.

bedroom. So table stakes, number one, clean air in the bedroom, dial in your sleep sanctuary. That's number one. Number two is the, is what you're doing now. Living room, kitchen [00:43:00] area, smart mode, that one's to handle cooking particulate. So best is one Jasper per bedroom and one Jasper in the main room. Now I used to think it was expensive.

By the way, Jasper used to be 1975. It was a 2, 000 product. And we only sold to doctors and dentists during COVID.

Our shipping costs were literally 500 each. Like our costs were insane. And then we were able to get the price down to 1399. And then recently we got it down to 999. So as we get more efficient, we've been consistently lowering the price and we bundle it.

So if people purchase more, they get bigger discounts. Now an air purifier for 999 does still sound expensive. However, people put in a whole home water filtration system. That's seven to 10, 000. All the time. So I like to, I like to not think about it as an air purifier. I think about it as a whole home air filtration system.

And we originally created a HVAC style system that goes into your furnace. It was not that effective at

all. 

The 

best. you [00:44:00] that

Go 

ahead. know what so it wasn't effective you found.

No, it wasn't because it only worked when the furnace fan was running. So your air conditioner and furnace turn on and off all the time to stay energy efficient and not be loud.

So when they weren't running, the filter was doing nothing. Also, the furnace was not designed to be an air cleaning apparatus. It was designed to heat and cool. So when you add more resistance and pressure to it, it actually makes the furnace work worse. It works over time. It creates a pressure drop. It's very taxing on the system.

And then you're not able to prioritize your cleaning efforts. So you're literally cleaning the hallway that no one's in as much as your baby's bedroom. That makes no sense. So a decentralized portable air filtration system is the best way by far. And that's why we do things the way that we do. So, um, so square footage is not great, but to me covers means 80 percent cleaner.

I'm [00:45:00] not comfortable saying a number unless it's 80%. So if somebody puts one Jasper in their bedroom, their bedroom is going to have like 95 percent cleaner air. But it's still going to make the air in the whole space, you know, 20, 30 percent cleaner. Then if they have one in their bedroom and one in their kitchen living room, the kitchen living room is a bigger space than a bedroom.

But that area is still going to be like 80 percent cleaner air. And it's going to really tackle all of that cooking and Particularly, which is really what it's designed to do. And then people who are dealing with wildfire smoke or pollution, it's going to handle that. And then the best of course, is one per bedroom.

So if someone's like a family of four, you know, one in mom and dad's bedroom, one in each of the kid's room and one in the kitchen living room, and then that gives you a decentralized whole home system. And like, literally like with discounting and bundles, it works out to like. Six or 700 each when people are buying three or four.

Like our goal is to make Jasper as affordable as possible. And I want everybody to realize there are air purifiers out there that are really great. [00:46:00] Typically, this is where, this is where we come in. There's the air purifiers that are like one, two, 300. Those need to be in a tiny, in a small bedroom on full speed.

So if you're in a small bedroom, And you keep it on full speed and you can put a bunch of duct tape and cover up all those bright lights. It can still be pretty effective. We come in if people want it to be a little bit quieter and a little bit more aesthetically pleasing. And then also there are air purifiers that are like 600 that are really good at cleaning the air.

But they're very, very loud and ugly. So a lot of them, they need to be on high speed all the time. They're bright white plastic. You know, we use steel,

we use commercial grade sensors. We made it a cylinder so it can go in the corner. It can go right against the wall. We made it so you just change the filter once, twice a year, no wifi, no Bluetooth, no EMF.

So we created a product for people who wanted the best of performance. And they also wanted something beautiful. You know, you can go to Walmart and buy a kettle for 19 and it's going to [00:47:00] heat your water just fine. It might be, it might have microplastics. I don't know, but you could also buy a kettle for like 99 or 150.

That's beautiful and metal and, you know, turns itself off. And for some people very budget conscious, they only have 20 for a kettle. No problem. But for other folks, they might care. They might want things in their home that look more minimalistic, a little bit more modern add to the decor. It's like functional art and it's, it's a, it's a beautiful user experience.

So we wanted to create a product that's. Both effective and beautiful and just takes care of itself. So I would rather somebody start opening their doors or buy a couple cheap air purifiers and put them on full speed or buy a large, loud, ugly air purifier. Um, I just, I like people to know, like, we're not for everybody.

Um, and there are lots of options out there. I'm here to raise air awareness. So. For some people that might just be using your rain shirt that might be not bringing your, your, your shoes inside. That might be using [00:48:00] better products like branch basics or using water and vinegar to clean instead of Clorox or Lysol.

So the overall mission here and the purpose is for people to realize, Whoa, you think about your food, but you, you breathe, you breathe. You eat two or three pounds of food a day. You drink like two liters of water a day, but you breathe 15, 000 liters of air per day. Babies breathe 60, 000 times per day. So if you, if you're worried about microplastics in your water, you're likely getting way more microplastics from your air.

So to the folks who are like super health conscious and dialing it in, it's the lowest hanging fruit because you breathe 24 hours a day from the moment you're born until the moment you die. And you can go three weeks without food, three days without water, and only three minutes without air. So we really take for granted our air and we don't even think about it because it's the, we literally can do it in our sleep.

If we didn't, we would die. We would be on machines. So because of our, our it's autonomous function, we've become very ignorant to our air. [00:49:00] So even if we're breathing very dirty, toxic, polluted air, we're really good at coping and adapting. But I like to call air purifiers, the laziest way to be healthy.

Because it does have an investment component, but once you buy it and you plug it in, you don't have to do a thing. And what was really important to us, the reason we have a lifetime, I find as a consumer, it's very expensive whenever I'm cheap because I buy the cheap thing and it lasts a year and then I'm keep buying more.

So we made a lifetime warranty. So once somebody buys a Jasper once, They have a lifetime warranty. So literally if it breaks after three years, the sensor's not working, the fan's not working, it won't turn on. We ship them a brand new one the next day, not a refurb, a brand new one. They take the new one out of the box.

They put the old one in the box. Then we give them a prepaid shipping label from UPS. And we schedule UPS to pick it up from your front door at 9am the next day. So I hate when I want to return a product that broke. And I gotta, I gotta get a box. They want me to send them

pictures. I need to

find my original receipt.

I [00:50:00] gotta go to the store. It's like half a day. That's not cool. So part of our, our mission statement, we believe that a product is only as good as the company that supports it. So we want to commit our commitment to people is if they bought a Jasper once ever for the rest of their life for a little over a dollar a day, you'll have clean air for life and you'll never need to buy another air purifier again.

You may want a second one, but you'll never need to replace it. And, um, that value to us is like more important than anything. And most air purifier companies. They have six models, they make water filters, they make diffusers, they make air conditioners, they make everything. You, you can't be, you could be great at anything, but you can't be great at everything.

So we've chosen just to be excellent at one thing, which is teaching people about air and making one product to support that. And that is our competitive advantage. And for that reason, We don't have hundreds of staff and giant offices. And when we were in medical, we were a 2, 000 product. Most [00:51:00] medical air purifiers were like two, three, four, five, six, 7, 000.

And we were able to pass on the savings to our customers by being a lean, organized, efficient business. We're not running billboard ads and crazy Facebook ads and stuff like that. We just educate people. And for some percentage of the population, that's like, yes, I want a beautiful premium, effective air purifier.

We're here for you. For anybody else, that's totally cool too. And that's how we also, we have something called the life changing guarantee. So if somebody buys a Jasper and within 60 days, it's not making their life way better. They're not sleeping way better. You know, 83 percent of the people slept way better.

And everybody who's, anybody who cooks, Sees it and feels it working every single day. So for that, that's why we're very comfortable with these bold guarantees because either it works or it doesn't, if it doesn't get your money back and buy something that does. And because our success rate is so high, it allows us to do what I call prove it marketing.

So I'd be able to give a hundred people Jaspers for the sleep study. We can really put our money where our mouth is because the product works so good. And [00:52:00] I'm so grateful when I used to do mold remediation and floods and stuff, it sucked. It was like playing whack a mold. Um, when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

And when your nail is ripping people's houses apart. instead of actually, you know, if you have bad water, do you rip up the pipes or do you filter the water? So if you have bad air, do you rip up all the walls or do you just filter the 

air? So I really am blessed to have a much more practical solution for people.

Jacqueline: You can tell just from listening to you, you're incredibly passionate about this and I think that's why you and Jasper have been so successful. And I love that education is really at the heart of your mission. Um, and quite honestly, that's kind of what initially captivated me when you first reached out.

But no, I mean, education is truly key. And the nature of what I do with Well and Strong, it's to encourage readers to be advocates of their own health.

Right. And how do you do that? You do that through education, not fear mongering, um, right. Which I also love that you don't do. I mean. To your point, you know, there, there are natural ways that people can still quote unquote have cleaner air [00:53:00] without a filter, um, but it's just about, you know, being educated and making those right decisions.

I know we're coming up on time, but one other question I did have for you is I knew that the Jasper measures air quality using like the PM, like 2. 5. 

Mike: 5. Yep. 

Jacqueline: So my, I mean, what's considered a good level. Let's, let's start with that.

Mike: Okay. So I'll tell you the Jasper has two sensors on board. It is PM 2. 5 and it also has a VOC sensor. To not confuse people, we just show the PM2. 5, but if you ever see your Jasper going to fan speed 2, but it's still green, it's because it's also detecting VOCs that could be off gassing. PM2. 5 means particulate matter under 2.

5 microns in size. These are the particles that are small enough to enter your lungs and your bloodstream. So, good indoor air is gonna be like a 4 or a 5. Under 10 for

sure. 

Jacqueline: was a three. Is that, is 

Mike: 3's, 3's, 3's, 3's 

great. Three's great. I've, uh, three's like pretty much as low as it goes. Um, it's funny. One of those [00:54:00] cheap air purifiers I actually bought was in a pretty gross hotel room and it was a one.

Like it's just, it's a crappy sensor. They, they use such horrible sensors and they put in cleaner numbers than it really is, so you think it's working. And we have some educational room for improvement here because just because you see a three or four, it doesn't mean you have clean air. You could still have mold.

You could still have allergens. You could still have chemicals in the air. So Jasper detects PM VOCs, but it filters thousands of things. So it can't detect mold. You need a lab for that, but it's very effective at cleaning mold. So PM 2. 5 is the best thing we can use to modulate the fan. So cooking, pollution, cleaning products, hairsprays, things like that.

Exactly. odors, fragrances. My mom was, um, varnishing a picnic table, like almost a couple hundred feet off of their patio. And their Jasper went red,

Jacqueline: Yeah. That's what I'm saying too, Mike. Like, the coolest thing is that you can [00:55:00] literally use it as a tester. Like, I I sprayed something in my hair. Um, You know, without realizing like what the ingredients were like months ago. And I walked by the Jasper and all of a sudden it just changed and it's, it went to red and I was like, what is going on?

And I realized, wow, it's picking up what was in the hairspray. So it's cool 

Mike: A lot of people have, have really, and it's, it's fun because, you know, we're an education based company. And then Jasper itself is an educational tool. So people who I like when people talk about, they crack their windows and then it went orange. Like, Oh, maybe today's not such a good day outside. Or incense or candles and like, um, Justin Liberman, who does our air testing.

We've worked together for years. So people ever communicate with our company, they likely speak with Justin, who was in air consulting for over like seven or eight years. He went to Natalie Niddam's house. Um, she lives in Toronto and she's in the health and wellness space. We couldn't get her Jasper to go red.

We used all her products, her cleaning stuff. She was using Branch Basics and using all these low, [00:56:00] very low tox products and it just made such a big difference. So it was still really helpful for her cooking, for her pollen, for her allergies from old. But yeah, using better products makes a really big deal.

Do you know what day this episode's coming out?

Jacqueline: Um, october 1st. It's Tuesday.

Mike: Okay, that's a great day. First day of the

month. So, what we do, like I said, we don't do much on the way of advertising. We just have conversations and our main source of advertising is people like you and our actual customers who have friends and family come over like, Whoa, air is clean in here. I want that thing.

So for that reason, we like to, and we're not at Best Buy, Home Depot, Amazon, Walmart, they would be the one taking all of the margin. So instead we can come and, you know, give discounts to people. So our normal price with subscription is 9. 99 from October 1st until for one week. So until October 8th, October 7th at midnight, we'll have a 20 percent off discount.

And after that for the rest of time we'll leave the discount code at what, what do you want to do for [00:57:00] the code?

Jacqueline: Uh, well, and strong would be great.

Mike: All right. Well, and strong will be the code. All your listeners know how to spell that. So it'll be 20 percent off for a week, October 1 until October 7th. After that, no rush, no pressure. It'll still be 10 percent off.

And also that discount will combine with the discounts on our website. So if people buy two, it's 10 percent off. If they buy three, it's 15. If they buy four, it's 20. So like, if they used your code and ours, it would be 20 percent and another 20 percent off. So all of a sudden, instead of Jasper being 999, it'd be like, 600. 

It'd be like 400 off basically. So yeah, we'll combine it. Our website is Jasper dot C O J A S P R dot C O. So for anyone who's been thinking about investing in clean air and want something that's powerful and effective and beautiful, this is your sign. But if not, there's lots of other good stuff out there.

And, um, nice chatting

Jacqueline: Awesome. Love it. My again, I'll be linking a Jasper's Instagram account too. I follow it. I love it. You have really great educational information on again, clean [00:58:00] air, all the stuff we've spoken about. Um, but yeah, my kudos to you for building something really great, uh, for helping others while you do it. And yeah, for all your success, it was really 

great. 

Mike: you for helping bring light to 

it. 

Jacqueline: absolutely. 

Mike: Without you. I just be a crazy air guy shouting from the aisles of shouting at

Jacqueline: Shouting at target? Well, you got to let me know next time you find yourself near a Greenville, South Carolina. Hopefully there might be another wellness conference coming up. But, um, yeah, I 

Mike: Well, let me know if there's ever events out there. Please let me know what 

Jacqueline: question for you, Mike, and this is my favorite one to ask, and that is what does being well and strong mean to you?

Mike: it means to me is, um, being the most important to me in my well and strong journey is not being overwhelmed. It's, it's not, it's not striving for perfection. It's making little baby steps every single day and that the. [00:59:00] Quality of your life is just the sum of the decisions that you make one day at a time.

So to me, it's going to bed at night, feeling proud of the decisions I made today, and not allowing myself to be overwhelmed by perfectionism.

Jacqueline: Love that. What do they say? Perfection is The enemy of 

Mike: The enemy of good. 

Yeah, it is. 

Jacqueline: Mike, this has been so much fun. I'm so excited to share this with listeners. And yeah, I mean, there's still so much to cover, so I'm going to have to have you back on again at some point.

Mike: All right, we'll come back for allergy season in the

spring. 


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Jacqueline Genova

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