How To Be WellnStrong

81: How to Regain Hormonal Health with PCOS | Tallene & Sirak Hacatoryan

• Jacqueline Genova • Episode 81

Share episode

Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS) is a condition that affects 5 to 10% of women of reproductive age. Despite many women struggling with difficult symptoms like irregular or absent periods, excessive hair growth, acne, and weight gain, we still know little about it. Unfortunately, it often takes visiting multiple doctors to receive a proper diagnosis. That’s why I’m excited to sit down and speak with Tallene, a PCOS Weight Loss Registered Dietitian, and her husband Sirak, a PCOS-focused personal trainer, to talk about all things PCOS! We discuss the root causes of PCOS, common symptoms, what a PCOS-friendly diet looks like, the best exercise routine for PCOS, and much more!

Suggested Resources:


Send me a text!

If you’re looking for a high protein, low sugar bar made with real food, and organic ingredients, you NEED to try Rawr Bars. Gluten-and dairy free, these bars come in a variety of tasty flavors from cookie dough to dark chocolate raspberry to birthday cake,  plus their bars range from 18-20g protein.

Right now, you can use the code “wellnstrong” for a special discount on your order!

Join the WellnStrong mailing list for exclusive content here!

Want more of The How To Be WellnStrong Podcast? Subscribe to the YouTube channel.


Follow Jacqueline:


*Unedited Transcript*
===

Jacqueline: [00:00:00] Well, first of all, thank you both for reaching out. I never heard of your podcast before either. But with that said, you know, I have had one episode, dedicated to this topic, but PCOS.

Is so, so important. It deserves so much more attention. So when you both reached out, um, and I had a chance to, you know, check out the work and the messages that you were sharing, I was really excited to, to bring you both on.

Tallene & Sirak: Yeah, I think it's a really big topic. I'm glad you've already covered it before. And I think it's something that impacts, depending on the country, like one out of five or one out of 10 women. So I think it's a good topic to go over again. 

Jacqueline: Yeah, to your point, I mean, I read that PCOS is one of the most common hormonal disorders in women of reproductive age. And I actually read that. I think the stats were like it affects 5 to 13 percent of women, but up to 70 percent of cases actually go undiagnosed, which is wild.

So hopefully through this episode, um, perhaps listeners who. May have [00:01:00] an inkling that they might have it can, you know, get some more clarity, but I'd love to just kick it off by hearing both of your stories. and how you both found yourself, you know, in this space doing the work that you're doing.

Tallene & Sirak: Yeah. Of course. So I have PCOS and I was able to reverse my symptoms. So, um, this was like 18 years. I was around 18 years old when I had a ruptured ovarian cyst and it really was so painful. Sent me to the hospital and just like changed the trajectory of my entire life. Basically. Um, I was lucky enough to be quickly diagnosed with PCOS because then I.

understood that I had this condition and that is why I was gaining weight uncontrollably and had facial hair and acne, really bad cystic acne and hair loss and fatigue. And it, it really took a toll on me during my years in college. Um, and I decided to study nutrition and become a registered dietitian.

So I, it kind of forced me into [00:02:00] this path of figuring out what the heck is wrong, understanding my metabolism and healing my hormones. And so that's where everything kind of started for me. Yeah, from my end, it kind of, I obviously wasn't there when Tine was diagnosed with PCOS. We met a bit later on. We met seven years ago, our first date that we went out on.

And, uh, since the day we got married, uh, Tine had been essentially like spreading awareness about PCOS. And, you know, this was right around the time TikTok became a thing, like I want to say five, six years ago when TikTok was first coming out and video was becoming like this really important format for social media.

Like before TikTok, there wasn't really much short form videos on like social media. It's kind of crazy enough not to think about it now. But, um, and I was really into photography and filming and stuff. So I wanted to help telling with filming content for her. And I, I told her like, you should start doing more videos.

So we started filming some of the videos when it started going viral. I was an engineer at the time, but I just really saw what Tony was doing and [00:03:00] how the videos were just really helping people. And it was so much more fulfilling. So I quit my job as an engineer and joined time full time. And together we became, I also had a personal training background, so there was also a bit of that too.

So we just basically became like a PCOS dietician, a PCOS personal trainer, who worked together to help others, wife and husband duo.

Jacqueline: I love that story. You know, it's so funny. I find that most of the folks I speak with in the wellness space come from a completely different background. Um, and just for you both, my background is in finance and economics. 

I went to a college known for entrepreneurship, which is basically kind of what I'm doing now since taking well and strong full time.

But with that said, you know, and people ask, like, how would you describe yourself? I describe myself as a researcher at heart. Um, I love reading. I love having conversations like these. And I think, you know, this is the best way to, to get educated. So kudos to you, um, both for, for stepping into this space and, you know, sharing.

really important information that a lot of women need to hear. And Talene, you mentioned some of it before in terms of like the symptoms you [00:04:00] experienced, but for the listener out there who has never heard of the term PCOS, first of all, what is it? And then I'd love for you to go into maybe some of the most common symptoms because I know they do vary across individuals.

Tallene & Sirak: Yeah. PCOS, polycystic ovarian syndrome, is a metabolic hormonal disorder that affects one in five women, uh, in the world. And that's a lot. That's like 10 percent of the 20 percent of the population. That's a lot because in the U. S. Is one out of 10 percent reason, but the entire world is one out of five. I don't know why the data changes like that.

Yeah. Cause there's different like diagnosed diagnostic criteria is U. S. Versus outside the country. So So, to be safe, we can say 10 to 20 percent. Exactly. So, to be diagnosed, you would need two out of the three symptoms. So, the first one is ovarian cysts, which you would find in an ultrasound. The second one is irregular periods.

And the third one is hyperandrogenism. So that's symptoms of high testosterone, like facial [00:05:00] hair, acne, hair loss, weight gain, fatigue. And so if you have two out of those three symptoms, you can be diagnosed with PCOS. And that's also one of the reasons why PCOS gets misdiagnosed or undiagnosed for so long.

Because the misconception is that you have to have ovarian cysts to have PCOS. Because the name suggests that, right? Polycystic ovarian syndrome. But like Tanya was saying, if you have two of the three symptoms, like if you have the other two, which are irregular periods, which means your periods could be missing, they could just be like irregular, like the timing, or they could be painful.

If you have that. And if you have elevated testosterone levels, which could show up as like cystic acne, hair loss, facial hair. So if you have just those two, that could qualify you for PCOS as well.

Jacqueline: Right. So interesting. Is that, like the Rotterdam criteria, is that what it's referred to as? Yeah. And interestingly too, I mean, there are women that do have polycystic ovaries that don't necessarily have PCOS, right? So it is hitting, you know, two of those three criteria, um, which is really interesting.

[00:06:00] Um, and symptoms, Talene, what are the most common symptoms? Super

Tallene & Sirak: uh, typically suddenly you like start gaining weight and that's when you realize something's going on. You go to the doctor and that's typically around when someone gets diagnosed or they get diagnosed because they have trouble with fertility. Um, that's another thing that sends you to the doctor where you might get diagnosed.

Um, and some of the other symptoms that we deal with and kind of don't go to the doctor for and just like silently suffer from include facial hair, acne, hair loss, fatigue, um, just not feeling like yourself throughout the day, having irregular periods. Um, one of like the hallmark signs of having PCOS is having, uh, in difficulty ovulating and not being able to release that egg during ovulation because of having high testosterone, which blocks that and also [00:07:00] makes it difficult to get pregnant.

Um, and so these are some of the really common signs of PCOS. 

Jacqueline: You mentioned fatigue, and earlier too you mentioned PCOS being like a metabolic disorder. Um, so a couple questions on that front. My first question is, how would you describe it? Like would you describe it as a hormonal disorder and a metabolic disorder? And is there also a genetic component to PCOS?

Because I've heard varying opinions on this.

Tallene & Sirak: Yeah. PCOS is passed down in the form of insulin resistance. So if you have someone with diabetes in your family, this can be passed down in the form of insulin resistance. And the reason why it's like a metabolic hormonal disorder is because the metabolic hormones like insulin affect. the sex hormones like progesterone and testosterone.

And so it's not just about like, one or the other. It's about how they relate to each other and the diet and the lifestyle and the way you work out. All of these things affect [00:08:00] your body's ability to produce. to, um, progesterone. It affects your body's ability to balance insulin levels and blood sugar. Um, and it all goes hand in hand because if you have high insulin levels and insulin resistance to break it down, that triggers high testosterone in your ovaries.

And then that makes it harder for you to get pregnant, ovulate, and so on.

Jacqueline: So Talene, let's say, you know, a woman gets diagnosed with PCOS and from a conventional There are obviously so many different approaches that are probably not the best in the long run, and I know a lot of that entails, like, metformin, spironolactone, a lot of anti androgen medications, birth control, certainly.

What would someone do, um, who wants to pursue a more natural, holistic approach in managing this condition? Where do they start?

Tallene & Sirak: I think the best place to start, um, if you really, if you don't want to take birth control. It's like getting your labs done, right? That's what we always talk about. It's [00:09:00] like going to the doctor and finding a doctor can also be difficult with PCOS because A lot of times it can take a second or third visit with a different doctor to find the one that's right for you.

But we highly recommend working with a naturopathic, a functional doctor, a gynecologist who can do a full blood panel for you, which is where they will do a, you know, test with your, uh, test to see all your different hormones, make sure all your, the Divide nutrients. Uh, minerals are within certain levels.

And then from there they can pinpoint, okay, you have rampant insulin resistance, therefore let's focus on that with diet, with supplements, or maybe you have thyroid issue and that thyroid is what's causing your metabolism to slow down and therefore that's why you're gaining weight. So let's put you either on some thyroid supplements or a thyroid medication and so forth.

So the first thing anybody should be doing, of course, if you have the means to, is. go to a doctor who can do a full blood panel for you. Yeah. And understand exactly like, and understand like what is going on before kind of shooting in the dark and just doing the first thing [00:10:00] you see on Instagram.

Jacqueline: Right. Sadly, that's become, that's what it's become 

Tallene & Sirak: Yeah. That's okay too. Sometimes it's good to start from somewhere. Like, I don't want to discourage that, but if you have the opportunity to look at blood work and like Sirak said, see if you're insulin resistant and see what's happening, that could be really helpful in doing a proactive step in the right direction.

Jacqueline: Yeah, absolutely. And I do think it's very encouraging that so many women are, you know, out there on Instagram who have had PCOS like yourself for, you know, decades and are saying they have been able to reverse their symptoms. But with that said, I mean, is it possible for someone to actually, like, reverse PCOS, or would we look at it through a lens of more of being able to just, I guess, like, manage symptoms through lifestyle, uh, and dietary changes?

Tallene & Sirak: Well, it depends how you want to like, look at it or phrase it reversing is managing your symptoms, putting them into remission and not living with PCOS symptoms. And curing is [00:11:00] a whole different thing, which you cannot 

do. Yeah, I think that's what you were trying to, it's kind of like being, uh, being diagnosed with like pre diabetes, right?

When you get pre, I know it's not the same at all, but when you have pre diabetes, a doctor may be like, okay, if you need to make these changes or else you'll become diabetic, right? And if you make those changes and you, and let's say a lifestyle changes, you lose weight, you're not pre diabetic anymore.

You kind of put it into remission, but if you were to go back to those lifestyle changes, that would come back. So it's similar to that, but obviously not the same. Exactly. And that's where genetics comes in. Like if you're genetically predisposed, Exposed to being insulin resistant or having diabetes, you would need to live your life a certain way, have a certain lifestyle, lift weights, make sure that you're eating in a blood sugar friendly way in order to avoid that.

And if you had that, essentially you would reverse that and keep that in remission.

Jacqueline: Right. Yeah, that makes sense. All right. So, if PCOS symptoms disappear entirely, it's often because insulin resistance and hormonal [00:12:00] imbalances have been corrected, not necessarily because the condition has, like, been cured. Um, and I'm sure there are flare ups, you know, that can happen due to 

stress. and diet and hormonal shifts and all that fun stuff.

Um, also too, one thing I did want to touch on, , again, I've read a lot about this condition over the past several years, but while PCOS does come with challenges, I do know that there are some positive aspects to it that can be reframed, um, as strengths, right? So, for example, like higher levels of testosterone could, you know, mean more strength and muscle growth.

So, I'd love if you both can maybe touch on what some of those benefits, uh, could be in, in having PCOS.

Tallene & Sirak: Absolutely. I was gonna start with the testosterone part, which is essentially, it can help you build muscle faster. It can help you get those workouts more effective because that extra testosterone will help to, will help with the strength training and help with improving insulin resistance and so forth.

So it's kind of like a. Quote, unquote superpower. If you want to say to help you with the string training portion of things. And of course that a [00:13:00] little bit of high testosterone can also in like in certain ways, uh, Make, yeah, you can, it can make you more resilient and almost a better leader having that little bit of high

Jacqueline: I've read that. 

Tallene & Sirak: I, I love the book PCOS SOS. Anyone who has PCOS who's listening, that is the book for you and

Jacqueline: have not read that, Talene. I have to add that to my list.

Tallene & Sirak: It's written by a PCOS, yeah, it's written by a gynecologist whose entire, like, life's focus has been PCOS. Her name is Dr. Phyllis Gersh. Highly recommend that book for anyone. She's my doctor.

Jacqueline: I love that. See, there you go.

Tallene & Sirak: So she is a wonderful and one of the things that she says is that, you know, PCOS has been around forever. And back in, like, you know, hundreds of years ago, when women would get PCOS, it would typically be during times of famine and warfare. And it was almost like a protective mechanism their body would do [00:14:00] to fight or flee the danger.

And, you know, the little bit of infertility they would get from it would stop them from producing. children in like a harmful environment. And so it was kind of like your body's like adaptation to, um, stress and now we're so inundated by stress and we don't even know because it's just our lifestyle.

We're driving in traffic. you know, we're waking up early, we're sleeping late, we're staring up screens, we're not using blue light glasses. Um, we don't have time to go on a walk. Like some people, you know, some lifestyles, like it's just a lot, there's a lot going on and you get used to it and you don't realize that your body is in this like fight or flight mode.

And it's not coming out of it. That's the thing. Like, it's not like, you know, you're, you're being chased by the lion, but like nonstop. And so, um,

Jacqueline: Yeah, that just reminds me. That's why I was gonna say it's so interesting. I'm super fascinated with the whole [00:15:00] field of epigenetics, right? And for listeners, that's basically like, how your genes are expressed as a result of your environment. And I know you mentioned there's a genetic component of PCOS due to the insulin resistance factor, but part of me too, Talene, just like you said, wonders how many more cases of PCOS are we seeing now because of our lifestyles, right?

Like that is triggering that even if someone may have that genetic component, right? Like that has to be activated by something.

Tallene & Sirak: Oh, yeah. Like environmental factors to all the endocrine disruptors that's everywhere in the food, in everyday products. I

Jacqueline: Yeah, exactly. Also too, um, going back to fertility, I don't, I forget where I read this, but someone said that women with PCOS can actually experience like a later onset of menopause, which like could actually mean an extended fertility window.

Have you, have you heard that before?

Tallene & Sirak: haven't heard that before. Have you? I'm not. No. But that's interesting. ~That's cool. ~

Jacqueline: And one thing too I really did want to touch on, and Surak, this is probably where you would, you know, really come in with the exercise component. Most women I feel like who are [00:16:00] suffering from weight gain with this condition, their gut instinct is to run, right?

Do as much cardio as they can, literally like beat their bodies to the ground in an effort to lose weight. And that obviously can backfire, especially with a disorder like PCOS. So for the woman out there who has this condition, who is trying to lose weight, what does she do? What is, what does that workout routine look like?

Tallene & Sirak: Yeah, great question. And we can't blame anyone who decides to go running for hours and hours and try to burn as many calories as possible because that's what's usually what we learned as we grew up. When we first go to the doctor for weight gain, the first thing they tell us is, you know, work out more, eat less.

That's what all PCOS women are told, unfortunately. So I can't blame anybody for trying to go the extreme route of trying to burn calories. But like Tanya was talking about earlier, PCOS is a metabolic and hormonal condition. So it's not just about burning calories and eating less. So for anyone who wants to start a workout, uh, regime, regime, regime, for anyone who [00:17:00] wants to start a workout regime, number one thing I would have you focus on is strength training, low intensity strength training, something we call slow way to workouts.

This is essentially where you're doing. Strength training with, uh, adequate breaks in between sets. We're not doing HIIT workouts where we're doing like one workout, one exercise followed by two others with no rest. Cause what that does is it can raise your cortisol levels and make it actually harder to lose weight with PCOS due to the cortisol dysregulation that happens.

So one first thing I would have everybody focus on is strength training. Because number one, it's going to help improve your insulin sensitivity, which is, which is then going to help you burn more calories naturally during your rest state. Research shows that just one strength training workout can improve your metabolism and help you burn more calories for the next three days.

That's after your 

workout. So the. Yeah. So the next day you're sitting, you're just, let's see, watching TV. You're actually in a better metabolic state because of your workout from yesterday. So that's the number [00:18:00] one thing I would say three times a week, 30 to 45 minutes is all you need. And then in between, you can definitely add in cardio, but I wouldn't recommend doing really intense cardio.

We're running for hours and hours. What happens with insulin resistance, which 80 percent of PCOS women have is when you run for really long. time, your body releases sugar into the bloodstream, which is a standard procedure. It releases sugar into the bloodstream to use it for energy so it can keep running longer.

But what happens is with PCOS and insulin resistance, that sugar gets released into the bloodstream and instead of being used for energy, it gets stored as fat. And then that's where people can be running for days and not seeing results. The scale stays the same or goes up. So with that being said, Limit your running and cardio to 30 minutes and focus more on just walking and getting the steps in versus like long hour sessions or long 

Jacqueline: Right. What are examples of strength training exercises?

Tallene & Sirak: Oh, great. Okay. So we just did a live workout the other day. [00:19:00] For example, our favorite is like a lower body workout because Lower body workouts have been shown to improve insulin even better because that's where majority of your muscles are. So for example, I would highly recommend the first exercise being just standard squat.

Obviously it's not the sexiest workout, but it is a pivotal, fundamental workout for everyone. So doing squats, I would say three sets of 10 to 12 reps following up with that. I would do a forward lunges with a three sets of 10 repetitions per leg. Tonya, you want to add anything from the, our workout that we just did?

Um, let's see. Those are mainly lower body. Yeah. We're just doing a lower body workout right now. Okay. I 

would, 

Jacqueline: incorporate weights too?

Tallene & Sirak: Oh yeah. These are all done with like five to 10 pound, 15 pound dumbbells. What you're like comfortable. We're not doing like 

heavyweights. We're not, we're not like doing like bodybuilding or like strength,

Jacqueline: We're not CrossFit.

Tallene & Sirak: yeah, we're not doing powerlifting.

But definitely by the 10th rep or 12th rep, you need to feel [00:20:00] that burn and want to drop the weights. Like it's not like, cause I've done Pilates with, you know, lightweights like three pounds and it was hard, but this is like. 10 pounds. This is like by the 10th rep, you want to drop it and you want to make sure that you're using the weights if you're ready to, of course you can start without them, but make sure that you are using weights because that's what's going to build that muscle.

Yeah. And just to finish up that workout because I left it halfway. So we've got squats, we've got forward lunges, and then go ahead and do hip thrusts. This is where you lay on the ground. You put a dumbbell on your hips and Thrust them up to engage the glutes and the hamstrings. And then to close it off, I would finish it up with, uh, Romanian deadlift, which is now we're focusing more so on the back of the legs, the hamstrings.

So this whole like workout focuses on the quads, the glutes, the entire, all of the leg muscles to really help, um, with insulin resistance. And I just wanna like jump in and say, if you haven't worked out and you have PCOS and you're intimidated by weights. You know, like I [00:21:00] totally understand because working out is not my favorite thing to do, you know, and it was foreign to me, especially lifting weights was super foreign to me in the beginning.

And it's like, definitely not what I was doing until I met Sidak. And, um, it's, I want to say it's very doable. You can do it in your living room. You don't need to be a professional. You can just follow along with our workouts and just like. turn your brain on airplane mode and like, not think about it or anything else and just do it.

And, you know, you're like turning to me asking me like what other moves to do, but like, honestly, do what you tell me because I'm not an enthusiast about working. I'm not enthusiastic about it. I'm doing it. I like how I feel when I'm doing it. I like how I feel after I'm doing it, but I'm not like this intense, um, like sure.

Enthusiast about working out. I love food. I love cooking. So I'm just saying for anyone out there, like you don't have to be like, you don't have to be [00:22:00] so into it or intense about it, or you don't have to have had a workout before. Like you don't need to know anything about working out. You can jump right into it.

Like I did. Not a big deal.

Jacqueline: I love that. I definitely have to check out that video. It's funny. I, um, so I used to run a lot in college, um, like six, seven miles a day, messed up my hormones. Irony is that I took off running for the past several years, but recently got back into I I'm at a point now where I'm starting to become addicted to running for like the mental health benefits.

And I have a friend who keeps telling me, she's like, you have to take it easy. You can't be running every day, like incorporate more strength training exercises. So I am trying to be more. diligent in switching it up, right? So I'm going to check out your videos,

Tallene & Sirak: Yeah. We have some free ones on YouTube, like completely full length workout videos that you can watch on YouTube at PCOS weight loss. But yeah, I definitely like that runner's high is so true. Like you, when you run for 30, 45 minutes, you get [00:23:00] that highest, like that endorphins

releasing. 

Jacqueline: it's for the mental health benefits. Like that's really why I do it. it's my outlet. 

Tallene & Sirak: Yeah. But I would say like, as we all get older, I mean, it's especially true for women due to osteoporosis. Yeah. But also for men to like for everybody, as we get older, we should be doing strength training, especially the lower body. Cause the biggest sign of mortality, this is kind of getting off topic, but the biggest sign of

mortality is actually leg strength.

The reason why is when you're older, let's say you're 80 years old, right? If you're, if it's difficult for you to stand up, you're going to be. active, you're going to be not walking as much. You're going to be basically just sitting all day. Like my grandma was like that. Unfortunately, she, at the age of 70, she just was sit a lot more.

And that from that point on your body will deteriorate a lot faster. Right? So you really want to focus on like strength training, especially the lower body to make sure as we get older, we can. Stand up and walk around as comfortable as possible. And especially for women too, as you get older, the bone [00:24:00] density is an issue.

So the strength training will help to make sure your bone density stays at a health healthy level for men 

too. Of course. 

Jacqueline: So, Rock, here's a question for you. What about walking? Here in Greenville, we have a lot of trails. The Swamp Rabbit Trail, which I'll take you both on when you come to visit me. But I, I love walking outside. I'm a huge walking enthusiast, and I recently got an Oura Ring.

Um, I like it just for cycle tracking, but it does obviously tell you the amount of steps you take each day. So last week, I did, I think it was 23 miles. on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. So it was like over like 70 miles in three days, which people might be like, that is insane. But for me, that's become like my norm.

So because that's like moderate intensity, would you say that like that is fine, for example, for like someone with PCOS, or would you still say like that is too intense and need to tone it down a bit?

Tallene & Sirak: I would say first off, it's like very individual and you have to really listen to your body. Like there's definitely not one size fits all [00:25:00] approach when it comes to exercise. There's just some general information you should know and gauge your body. So like we were talking about earlier, if you're a run for really long periods of time, how do you feel afterwards?

Are you fatigued the rest of the day? Are you fatigued the next day entirely? Because that could be a sign that it's just. It's not working out for your body. It's fatiguing the body and it's resulting in worse days for you. But if you're doing the exercises like running for several hours or many miles and you feel great, you have great energy, you're seeing the results that you're looking for, then I think it's good and you should continue.

It's just the knowing the general information and kind of gauging from there is the important thing. Yeah, you're your best. Yeah, you're like the best person to decide that because you want to evaluate if you're tired afterwards. If you have energy for the rest of the day, are you sleeping really good?

How's the next day? How's your mental health? Like you would know best. And if it was too much, you would be like, I'm dying of anxiety. Like this isn't [00:26:00] it. And just to give an example to like how it can impact your the next day. So let's say you do a really hard workout, whether it's running or whether it's like a two hour long workout.

And then what can happen is essentially because let's say you went for way too long, you actually, your insulin went up, you can impact your sleep. That night and

make it more difficult for you to sleep. It can also impact your cortisol levels. If you worked out too much, maybe your cortisol, AKA your stress hormones are too high.

So you go to sleep. You don't get a full night of sleep. Maybe you get like four or five hours. What happens then the next day? One night of bad sleep can actually worsen your insulin resistance by up to like 40 to 60 percent the next day. So now your next day is impacted just from that night of sleep.

And in addition to everything else that happened the day before. So that's how it can kind of trickle to the next day, next few days. So that's what you want to gauge.

Jacqueline: Yeah, no, that makes sense. And you mentioned that I think it was up to 80 percent you said of women with PCOS are impacted by insulin resistance. What determines that? So, [00:27:00] obviously, like, you can go by physical symptoms, right? Like, we mentioned fatigue and whatnot, but if we're looking for actual, like, blood tests, right?

Like, what should, like, what would you say is the most accurate way to determine insulin resistance?

Tallene & Sirak: You can get your insulin and your glucose tests tested, and then you can ask your doctor or plug them into chat GPT and get your HOMA IR. score and that will tell you your score and how insulin resistant you are if you are insulin resistant. Yeah. And there's certain levels you want to be within basically.

Yeah. Yeah.

Jacqueline: Okay. And then, do you think, like, your hemoglobin A1C test is also, like, Pretty accurate.

Tallene & Sirak: That's actually not the best way to find out if you're insulin resistant, um, because that's a reflection of your blood sugar over the past three months and it's not going to show you your response to eating like immediately. Do you know what I'm saying? It's just like a summary of your blood sugar. And it, it's, um, like if you were diabetic, that's a good score [00:28:00] to look at, but what if you're slightly insulin resistant, that's not really going to catch it.

And so when you do a fasting insulin, fasting glucose tests, and you calculate your home IR score, you understand how insulin resistant you are. And even if you're like, kind of insulin resistant. That's enough to affect your hormones and trigger high testosterone. Like, just because it's not the, you know, pre diabetic doesn't mean that it's nothing like a 

Jacqueline: Right. 

Tallene & Sirak: do something to you.

So

Jacqueline: Interesting. Are you both a fan of, uh, continuous glucose monitors?

Tallene & Sirak: we tried them and they are really cool. We tried them as an experiment like a year ago or two years ago and we did it for like about a month. And yeah, it felt like much from it. And Tine, yeah, Tine chickened out because she didn't like the poking in their arm stuff. Tine's very, Tine's very sensitive, I'll be honest. Yeah, I don't know. I couldn't, it was like on your stomach. Do you remember you had to like shoot it? Oh, not shoot it, but you just like ding it, yeah. Felt like a shot. Yeah,

Jacqueline: I have, um, honestly, I mean, I don't know [00:29:00] which one you guys use. I have one right now. I'm using one from Levels. It's like a 

Tallene & Sirak: yeah. Oh yeah, 

Jacqueline: it in the back of my arm. It doesn't hurt at

all. 

Tallene & Sirak: it 

doesn't. 

I'm dramatic. Don't listen to me. 

Jacqueline: which one you used.

Tallene & Sirak: Okay, guys. It's definitely good. Like for anyone who's thinking about it, it is great. It's like one of those things where it's not a permanent thing either. For example, like in the beginning of your journey, you just want to learn how your body is being impacted by certain foods and how much is impacting it.

So it's a really good way Like use it for maybe six months, a year, however long you want to see, to learn about your body. And at a certain point, you don't have to take, do it forever. You can start to kind of like understand and go from there.

Jacqueline: Yeah. No. I mean, I, I used one. The first time I used it was probably like two years ago and I put one in last week and it's fun to just test things, right? And obviously, like, I think people could take it to an extreme, right? 

But I think it is helpful in terms of thinking, like, how you pair things, right? 

Tallene & Sirak: Yeah. Yeah. 

Jacqueline: So, yeah, it's, it's been helpful for me,

Tallene & Sirak: Totally. You can add protein, almond butter. You can [00:30:00] make it work. And then see if that helps. The only thing with me is like, I love all these devices. Like I have a whoop. I, I kind of, I stopped 

using 

it for a 

little bit. Yeah. And like you mentioned the Oro Ring and then there's levels. My worry is like all these devices on our bodies are, they're basically transmitting Bluetooth. 

Jacqueline: Bluetooth. Oh, yeah, that's why I always have mine on airplane mode. I will always tell people, I'm like, if you were one of those devices, I was like, keep it on airplane mode. The only time I take it off is when I dock it to charge in the morning to like, get my insights. But the rest of the time, 

we 

are on airplane mode. 

Tallene & Sirak: See, Woop doesn't have that feature. I wish it did.

it 

it's 

always connected. Yeah.

Jacqueline: Get an aura ring. Here's my plug. Um, Talene, you mentioned, you mentioned protein and one thing I do not want to, um, Avoid talking about during this conversation is nutrition, right? Because that is so so important when it comes to PCOS So with that, what would you say is the ideal diet for someone with PCOS?

Tallene & Sirak: the ideal diet for someone with PCOS is something [00:31:00] that's going to keep your blood sugar stable and your inflammation low. Um, I think it's all about what time you eat, how you pair your foods and the foods that you do choose depending on your body's sensitivity to them. And so starting with what time you eat.

Um, I like to start eating my breakfast at 9 a. m. And then have a lunch at 1 and dinner around like 7 ish. Sometimes eight ish. And after dinner, I like to have a 12 hour window of fasting after my meal. So I'm sleeping, right? So I want to make sure that I'm not snacking after dinner because that fasting period is really important to keep my insulin levels nice and low.

And, um, that, that ties into. Not snacking as much. One snack, two snacks, like that's fine. But if you're grazing throughout the day, you're constantly eating and your insulin levels are constantly being raised and high insulin [00:32:00] levels block fat burning. And so you want periods of time in between breakfast and lunch or in between lunch and dinner where your insulin levels are nice and low so your body can shift into fat burning mode.

And utilize your fat or your whatever, you know, whatever you ate earlier to burn that up for energy in between meals. 

But if you're constantly eating, you can't shift into that mode.

Jacqueline: and Talene on that on that front too. What are your thoughts on intermittent fasting? So obviously to your point, you know, it can benefit us from like an insulin resistant standpoint, but also too, you don't want to overdo it, right? So I know there's women who like go beyond 16 hours and then you don't want to put, you know, excess stress on your body that increases cortisol levels.

So what is like a healthy balance of that? And I also know that there are certain times of your cycle, right? Where like your body's more resilient, right? Like during Um, like days 1 through 14, um, versus like a luteal phase fast. So yeah, what are your thoughts on that?

Tallene & Sirak: I think that [00:33:00] generally speaking, like just for the average girl with PCOS, doing a 12 hour fast is moderate. It's good. You know, it's not super stressful most likely. Um, and I think everyone could start. there. And then there are different research studies done on PCOS and fasting and different ways of doing it.

You could experiment to see what works best for you, but I would start with a 12 hour fast. And, and I'm sure like you've read or seen online, like 13, 14, 15, like longer fasts. Sometimes those studies aren't done on women or or even they're not even done on women specifically with PCOS. So that can be stressful.

I, you have to evaluate how you feel. Yeah, like 90 percent of those intermittent studies are done on men or women who are not in their reproductive, uh, stage in their life. So the, those studies aren't really, even though they show great benefits, I'm sure they do for a lot of people. It's just, they're not directed at women with PCOS who are in the reproductive age.

And you know, [00:34:00] there are other ways you can manage your blood sugar. Like you don't have to do these extreme things. Just do the 12 hour fast. And then, for example, you can eat balanced meals with half your plate veggies, a quarter of your plate protein, a quarter of your plate fiber, I mean, uh, carbs, and having that balance of protein, fat, fiber, and carbs We'll keep you full and you won't snack as much and it's better for your blood sugar.

You don't need to starve yourself for 16 hours and say like, I'm fasting, like you don't have to. That's like the general rule. I like that. It's like the general rule of thumb for your plate is basically half your plate. Half of it should be fiber. a quarter is protein and the other quarter is carbs. Try to always do that when you're making your plate.

Even if it's, if you're at a restaurant, just that will just, that little thing will help you a long way. Yeah, exactly. 

I'd rather do 

that than starve for 16 hours.

Jacqueline: love, I love that you both said carbs, right? Because again, I [00:35:00] feel like there are a lot of women who, you know, want to lose weight and right away they jump on the keto train, which is really not great, right? And I think, like, I mean, outside of PCOS, I think there are certain conditions, right, that benefit from a keto diet short term.

I don't think it's a long term sustainable, you know, diet strategy, but to each their own. Um, so with that, can you just touch on why it's so important for PCOS to include complex carbs in their diet.

Tallene & Sirak: Yeah, it could be complex carbs, like, um, carbs that have fiber in it. For example, uh, sweet potato or beans or brown rice has more fiber, but it could also be, yeah, quinoa, it could also be simple carbs paired with protein, paired with healthy fats. Like, I like white rice. I just like it. I don't like brown rice.

It is what it is. So I'm okay. Yeah. And it's okay. I, I, sometimes I measure out, I make sure I have just half a cup or a fourth of a cup. [00:36:00] And, um, I pair it with my protein and my fiber, you know, as chickens and salad. And like, I'm not trying to avoid something I love. and putting myself on this restrictive diet.

I'm making it work. So I'm pairing it and I'm making sure that I'm eating my protein and fiber first. I'm not like launching into the rice first thing when I sit down to my dinner. Um, and this makes a really big difference in your blood sugar control and helps you so that you don't have to be super restrictive.

Yeah.

Jacqueline: that. Are there any particular things that women should try to avoid completely? Um, and the first two things that come to mind are caffeine, right? We all love our morning coffee. Well, most of us do. I do. Um, and alcohol because I know, you know, alcohol burdens our liver.

Right? And with PCOS, you want to make sure that your liver is certainly not burdened so it could help eliminate excess estrogen and all that other stuff. So

Tallene & Sirak: I definitely think the one glass of wine a night rule is not for a [00:37:00] PCOS woman. I don't think we should have one. I think it's bad for everybody. I think nobody should drink wine every night. They just changed that by the way. Because I think it was like a few months ago, they just changed, I don't know if it officially got changed, but there was basically saying they're about to change the one glass a day recommendation.

Essentially, I'm going to do a story about it because I've been saying it like they literally taught us in school. Like I went to one glass is recommended for a woman and one to two for men of like how many ounces? I'm like, no, I'm 

sorry. But no, like sure. You could have wine. You're out to dinner. You're having a steak, whatever on the weekends.

It's fun. I'm not saying don't, but like every night is not it for a woman with PCOS because we're susceptible to fatty liver disease already because of insulin resistance and it could happen and you don't realize it. And then, then it's this whole thing you have to deal with. So just avoid it altogether.

And as we all know, like alcohol turns into sugar. So it's like after dinner, you're having a glass of wine that's converting to sugar in your body and it's creating, you know, the insulin resistance. become more rampant. It doesn't mean [00:38:00] don't drink wine. Doesn't mean don't enjoy these things. Just like keep in mind every night could make that impact.

And then there's caffeine. Um, of course, if you're using caffeine as a crutch to, for your fatigue and for your energy, I would suggest evaluating your lifestyle. Are you getting quality? you doing the things that give you natural energy, like going out for a little walk in the mornings to get those natural sun rays or eating a high protein meal, like reevaluate those things and slowly taper off the caffeine because that's not the solution.

And then when it comes to dietary things to avoid, it's a case by case situation, but I always suggest trying the gluten and dairy free diet for 30 days to see how you feel, to see if that helps reduce your symptoms, if you have cystic acne, if you have bloating and fatigue and weight gain and high testosterone, you may find that some of these issues and lab results will change if you're sensitive to those foods.

And if you cut them out,

Jacqueline: Right. [00:39:00] Yeah. Super, super important. One other thing too, Talena, I really wanted your thoughts on, um, supplements. This is a very saturated space, right? Um, but I do know there are a handful of supplements that, you know, a lot of women with PCOS have found very beneficial, like, you know, inositol, um, zinc, you know, peony and licorice.

What are some of your favorite? Uh, supplements that you've used to, to help manage some of your symptoms.

Tallene & Sirak: I'm glad you said that because it has become crazy like TikTok shops and this and that of all these random supplements, you don't know where it's coming from. Is it certified? Is it even just who made it? You know, it's like, who is the creator? It's like insane how like, So many ads are now targeting the PCOS world.

So, but with that being said, there has been certain supplements that have been there from the beginning in terms of like the research, the, um, credibility and so forth, the number one supplement for PCOS is definitely inositol. It's the most researched supplement for PCOS women and [00:40:00] the research shows that it's just as effective as metformin.

But in those studies, metformin had five times the amount of side effects. They literally did a comparison of the two for PCOS women. So that's a great place to start. I would highly recommend you talk with your doctor and show them the studies and tell them, hey, Could I switch from metformin to this or could I take this in addition or can I just take that?

So show the studies to your doctor. That's a great place to start. Our favorite is ovacetol because it uses the dosages that were done in the studies and it uses the um, same formula ratio because there's also formula that's involved and then from there after inositol There's a couple of other ones you can do time you want Take over from here.

Yeah, after inositol, um, there's curcumin and coenzyme q10. These are very anti inflammatory. They help with egg quality, which is something that we should be focused on as women with PCOS. So reducing inflammation, specifically curcumin, it's like the more potent form of turmeric. I mean, it's the potent, [00:41:00] um, antioxidant in turmeric and it helps fight inflammation, which when your cells are inflamed, they're not.

Um, communicating with insulin. Well, and that's something we need to think about, and there's a lot of research around it, how it helps insulin resistance and helps reduce testosterone. Yeah. Omega three is another one for insulin resistance, uh, reducing testosterone as well, improving energy fatigue. And then, um, Burberine.

Burberine is a great one. That's, that's a huge one. Um, it helps with your gut health. It helps with your blood sugar. Um, all of these things are like research on women with PCOS and you know, it's, it's really important to take. The supplements that are researched on women with PCOS and it's important to take it in the proper dosages So for example inositol, there's lots out there But you know not all of them are a 40 to 1 ratio of myo and D chiro inositol and not all of them have [00:42:00] A 4, 000 milligram per day serving.

Yeah, and so they're just selling a bottle of inositol. We don't know what it is Well, they put like a quarter like A lot of times we get questions from our followers and we want to help people find the supplements that are right for them. Like we have our own, but we don't discourage people from using anything they want to use.

They'll send the supplement to us and we'll do a review for them just to tell, Hey, this is a good one. Go for it. And a lot of times it's marketed as Nostal for PCOS. You look and the dosages are like a quarter of what's using the studies 

and then it's more expensive or I don't know. So just be aware of those things, the dosages, the formulations, and make sure it's third party tested.

Amazon, of course, has some options out there for you. Just make sure when you're looking for one, try to make sure they find, uh, Find, uh, fill in those criterias. Exactly. When we came out with our supplement line, we made sure that all of them were research backed by women with PCOS and all of them had the dosages that are recommended for women with PCOS.

It's really important [00:43:00] and that all of them are NSF certified, which means that they are third party tested and constantly tested to maintain their purity and to make sure that it's like, if it says a hundred percent curcumin, it literally is a hundred percent curcumin. Cause it's tested. This is like rigorous third party testing.

And so when you look at like take talk and Instagram and people are selling all these supplements that are not third party tested, it's really questionable. It's really concerning because that's where we're getting most of our information for PCOS. It's not from our doctors, unfortunately. And that's fine.

There's lots of great information and support out there, but when it comes to supplements, you're putting this in your body every day and they can be so effective. You might, you have to get one that is pure and that is, um, actually designed for women with PCOS. Yeah. I think our favorite brand would be like Thorn.

I'm sure you've heard of Thorn, right?

They're really good. They are NSF certified. They are lab grade high quality. They make [00:44:00] great supplements. So if you, if you're on Amazon, check out thorn, there's pure encapsulations, which is a little bit, I don't know. I'm iffy with them because they got bought out by Bayer like four years ago.

And I'm still like, I don't know if they're changing up their formulations or not. And then, yeah, I would like, those are two I really, we really like in addition to the line that we created.

Jacqueline: Yeah, I'm a fan of Fullscript. Um, I don't know if you've heard about them. It's basically a supplement dispensary platform a lot of naturopathic doctors use, but they vet. They vet all of their brands, um, so anything that's really on full script pretty much has my, my trust. Uh,

you both should check it out if you haven't heard from them, but yeah, my other question too was, um, when it comes to high androgen levels, I've heard that spearmint tea is incredible at reducing testosterone, right?

Like that's just a simple thing, not a supplement, just spearmint tea, right? You can make it. 

Tallene & Sirak: I'm literally drinking 

Jacqueline: drinking it See, there you go. I, I love making it in like batches, and I'll just sip on that throughout the day. Um, I also read Saw Palmetto, um, is a great, uh, anti androgen supplement. Have you heard of [00:45:00] that?

Tallene & Sirak: Yeah. That's a good anti androgen supplement as

well. yeah,

There are two studies done on spearmint tea, which showed that drinking it two to three times a day can actually lower testosterone for women with PCOS. So they, in the studies, they saw reduced facial hair and reduced hair loss from the scalp. So yeah, definitely a really good, um, drink or supplement.

Yeah, we are. I'm drinking our testosterone relief tea. We have this blend of spearmint tea with nettle in it, which is also great for reducing testosterone. Yeah. And yeah, I'm, I'm obsessed with drinking that tea every day because facial hair, acne and hair. Oh my God. Look at you. You're drinking. We should send you

some.

Oh 

Jacqueline: that I have right now. I, I make, I make tea in, um, batches. I love Star See, we're matching. I love Star West and Mountain Rose herbs. Um, my whole cabin is literally just packed with, uh, herbs. People, like, come into my house and they're like, What is in, what is in here?

Um, 

but I'm a huge, I'm a [00:46:00] huge herbal enthusiast.

Tallene & Sirak: It's great. It's, it's part of like the supplement world

because having high testosterone makes you store fat deeper in your belly. It makes it harder to lose belly fat. It stores around your organs, around your liver, and it makes it harder to metabolize excess estrogen and like You know, and your liver to function and it affects weight loss and so many more things other than just facial hair and acne.

And so, as like a ritual for your day, if you're, you know, addicted to caffeine, maybe swapping it out for some, um, Spearmint tea can be really helpful in your symptom management. And 

ultimately, like, that's what we're trying to do.

Jacqueline: absolutely. And one thing I love that like this has been a consistent theme throughout this conversation. It's about balance, right? Like it's not necessarily about like completely eliminating the one thing that we really love, right? Like coffee. But more about finding ways to pair things, right?

So that it kind of mitigates the quote unquote damage. Like [00:47:00] with my morning cup of coffee, I don't have caffeine on an empty stomach. , and when I do have it, I love to combine it with like Um, so it's all about finding just like little hacks like that, right, that let you enjoy the things that bring you joy while also, you know, helping to keep your body in a stable state.

Tallene & Sirak: I love a hundred percent of you with that. Yes.

Jacqueline: Awesome. Well, I do want to be conscious of your time, you guys. I can't believe we're coming up on the hour. This has been so fun. Um, this has been so informative. I know a lot of women are going to really benefit from this, whether you're a woman They have PCOS now or whether they may have it and they're just, you know, awaiting a diagnosis.

Um, but with that, where can listeners find you both? You know, learn more about what you're doing, get updated on all your content.

Tallene & Sirak: Yeah. Well, Thank you for having us again. And for anyone who's interested, you can find us at PCOSweightloss. org. That's our main website where you can find our, uh, a mobile app for PCOS women, as well as our supplements and on social media, where we have the same exact name PCOS. [00:48:00] weightloss on Instagram, YouTube, Tik TOK.

And for anyone who wants to try out workouts, check out Tik TOK. We also have our podcast there as well, video version that you can, you can, um, follow. So. Yeah, I think that's everything. Yes.

Jacqueline: Awesome. I love that. Well, I'll be linking all of those in the show notes. I am going to be checking out your workout tomorrow. So I'll DM you to let you know

Tallene & Sirak: Good! 

Jacqueline: goes. 

Tallene & Sirak: Let us know your feedback too.

Jacqueline: No, I'm excited to give it a try. But my last question for you, and this is always my favorite one to ask, and that is what does being well and strong mean to you?

I

Tallene & Sirak: Hmm. Being well and strong for me means that I'm able to do all of my daily tasks with a smile on my face without, um, feeling like my body is dragging me down like it used to when I was struggling with PCOS. Um, it's just being able to do like the mundane things in life. Um, pick my sister up, go to my workout, wake up, eat breakfast, cook dinner with energy and, um, vigor and like [00:49:00] creativity because I feel good. 

Jacqueline: love that.

Tallene & Sirak: for me, it's being just in tune with myself and in tune with. My surrounding, not being distracted by my phone, not being distracted by sometimes social media or just in general, external factors and just focusing on my day to day life with Talyn, with our puppy and just kind of enjoying these moments really, 

Jacqueline: I love that. And continuing to educate all the people that you do and, you know, making such a big difference.

Tallene & Sirak: Oh yeah. Yeah. Of course. That's the, that's the, or our whole life. The point of all of it. Isn't it?

Jacqueline: well, thank you both so much. And yeah, I look forward to having you guys back on again at some point soon.

Tallene & Sirak: Oh yeah. We'd love to be back. And we look forward to having you on our podcast as well. That's going to be really fun. 


People on this episode

Head Shot

Jacqueline Genova

Host