How To Be WellnStrong

82: Why Nitric Oxide is the Key to Heart and Brain Health | Dr. Nathan S. Bryan, Ph.D.

• Jacqueline Genova • Episode 82

Share episode

Cardiovascular disease continues to be the leading cause of death for both men and women. One major factor may be low levels of nitric oxide, a molecule that promotes vasodilation and smooth blood flow. By recognizing the signs of deficiency, we can raise our levels and lower our risk. In today’s episode, I’m joined by Dr. Nathan Bryan, a Nitric Oxide Scientist, inventor, and author, as we to explore the importance of nitric oxide for our long-term health. Dr. Bryan discusses the four key characteristics of disease, the effects of excessive antacid use, and the link between reduced nitric oxide levels and an increased risk of Alzheimer’s. He also shares insights into lifestyle factors that can either diminish or enhance nitric oxide production, how to assess your levels, and symptoms that may indicate a deficiency. Dr. Nathan Bryan is a distinguished biomedical researcher recognized for his pioneering work on nitric oxide biology. His research has greatly contributed to our understanding of nitric oxide's vital functions in cardiovascular health, immune response, and neurobiology. Beyond his academic contributions, he is dedicated to promoting public health by translating his findings into practical health solutions.


Suggested Resources:

Send me a text!

If you’re looking for a high protein, low sugar bar made with real food, and organic ingredients, you NEED to try Rawr Bars. Gluten-and dairy free, these bars come in a variety of tasty flavors from cookie dough to dark chocolate raspberry to birthday cake,  plus their bars range from 18-20g protein.

Right now, you can use the code “wellnstrong” for a special discount on your order!

Join the WellnStrong mailing list for exclusive content here!

Want more of The How To Be WellnStrong Podcast? Subscribe to the YouTube channel.


Follow Jacqueline:


*Unedited Transcript*
===

[00:00:00] 

Jacqueline: Well, Dr. Nathan, it's really nice to connect with you. I have heard your name numerous times across podcasts that I listen to.

And I'm really excited to talk about all things nitric oxide today because this is what you could call a pretty hot topic, right, over the past few years. It's definitely something, ~um,,~ I don't know too much about, so I'm excited to learn more and it's something that I have yet to dedicate an episode to.

So I'm truly honored to have you be the first person to talk about it. Let's get right into it. I've heard you describe nitric oxide as this holy grail molecule. Can you please share with us why that is?

Dr. Nathan: Well, again, thanks for having me. Great for being, great to being with you. But, yeah, nitric oxide is what we consider the Holy Grail and it's just not a quote for me. I think Louie Gnaro made that statement, uh, back in 1998 when he won the Nobel Prize for the discovery of nitric oxide. So nitric oxide controls and regulates everything we know.

About the etiology and the mechanism of the [00:01:00] onset development of cardiovascular disease and it's not just cardiovascular disease It's really every age related chronic disease So the Holy Grail means that it's affecting fundamentally the whole process of disease progression and when we look at different diseases in different organ systems There's really four to five fundamental hallmarks.

There's always low blood flow to the affected organ, right? Like in heart disease, you got obstruction of the coronary arteries, there's decreased blood flow. In the brain, there's loss of regulation. So there's focal ischemia and Alzheimer's and dementia and Parkinson's. And so blood flow is a problem. And then the other thing is that the tissue is inflamed.

There's inflammation, there's immune dysfunction, and there's oxidative stress. And then in many other conditions, there's, there's insulin resistance. We see that in diabetes and metabolic disease and Alzheimer's. And so the fact that nitric oxide affects and corrects all those four to five fundamental hallmarks of chronic disease really makes it the holy grail.

Because nitric oxide is a vasodilator, so it's [00:02:00] opening up the blood vessels and now perfusing and perfusing those tissues with oxygen and nutrients. It decreases inflammation. Nitric oxide is one of the most anti inflammatory molecules that the human body produces.

Uh, it prevents oxidative stress. It mitigates the immune dysfunction.

And then we published, I think, in 2009, 2010, that nitric oxide is part of insulin signaling and glucose uptake. So simply by giving nitric oxide or correcting nitric oxide deficiency, restoring natural production of nitric oxide, we address the fundamentals of all chronic disease.

Jacqueline: Wow. So fascinating. The first question that comes to mind, Dr. Nathan, is how does one actually measure nitric oxide? Nitric oxide.

Dr. Nathan: Yeah, look, that's been a challenge in, in translation of, in, in the clinical medicine for the past 30 years, because people need to understand nitric oxide's a gas. And once it's produced, it's gone in less than a second. So in the research environment, we, we can kind of create a fingerprint of inter biology in, in clinical medicine.[00:03:00] 

pick up metabolites and, and figure out when nitric oxide is produced, where does it go? What does it become? But in clinical medicine, that's not the case because it's, it's not like, you know, for example, vitamin D, we can draw blood, we get a number of your vitamin D, and then we treat and we titrate dosing to reach optimal levels.

So with nitric oxide, we can't do that. There's no metabolite in the blood that we can quantify and give us a You know a determination of what your nitric oxide status is There are some medical devices some functional devices that look at endothelial function and those are very you know reliable accurate and Really important devices, but very few clinics and physicians use it, but it's measuring what's called flow mediated dilatation and the ability of the endothelial cells to produce nitric oxide. Uh, so what we have to do is we rely on symptoms. We can't measure it, we can, we can detect it, but there's, it's not used a lot in [00:04:00] clinical practice. So, we rely on symptoms. So, if you have, if you have erectile dysfunction, that's a symptom of nitric oxide deficiency. Because if you can't make nitric oxide to dilate the blood vessels of the sex organs, you don't get the engorgement, and we develop sexual dysfunction in both men and women. So, that's number one. Number two, if your blood pressure starts to go above 120 over 80. Then that tells us that your body is not making enough nitric oxide 

Jacqueline: Interesting. 

Dr. Nathan: nitric oxide it dilates the blood vessels So now you have a finite volume of blood that goes through more dilated blood vessels So pressure goes down if you can't make nitric oxide now the blood vessels are Constricted and now you're pushing that same volume of blood through smaller pipes And basic physics tells us that pressure goes up.

And two out of three Americans have an unsafe elevation in blood pressure. So it's a major problem.

Jacqueline: That's wild.

Dr. Nathan: number three, you start to develop metabolic disease, because as I mentioned, [00:05:00] nitric oxide is part of the insulin signaling and glucose uptake, clearing sugar and sharing, uh, clearing glucose from the circulation.

If you can't make nitric oxide, you develop insulin resistance, type two diabetes. 9 out of 10 Americans are metabolically unfit. Huge problem. Number four, you start to develop exercise intolerance. And so people can't maintain an exercise regimen without getting short of breath, chest tightening. And then fifth, people develop dementia and

Alzheimer's. And that's kind of the terminal step in, in lack of nitric oxide. And so you have to listen to your body. Our body talks to us all the time. If you have sexual dysfunction, there's a reason. Find the answers. If you have metabolic disease, there's a reason, and maybe nitric oxide is the answer and the solution.

I believe it is, and I think it's based on not just basic science data, but translation of that into clinical medicine.

Jacqueline: Going back to the testing, so in terms of like those saliva test strips at [00:06:00] home, like the nitric oxide test strips, would you say those aren't necessarily that accurate?

Dr. Nathan: You know, I'm the one who developed those back in 2010. I was the first one to create that point of care non invasive diagnostic. And the reason for that was because people ask the same question you ask. How do I know if I'm nitric oxide deficient? And how do I know if I need to consider nitric oxide repletion?

or, you know, mitigate a lot of the symptoms that arise from that. And so, understanding how the body recycles nitric oxide production, the role of the oral microbiome, I developed these salivary test groups, and You know, this was when I was a professor of medicine at UT Medical School in Houston, and we filed patents through the university, and this was based on old chemistry, so there's nothing new and novel about the chemistry that I'd put on the end of these test strips, but we thought it would have some diagnostic utility and offer some, some value.

But what we found was once I abandoned the patents on those, then other companies [00:07:00] started manufacturing these test strips. And now you can 

find them from companies. Yeah. But no, I think they have some utility, but you know, you have to understand what you're measuring. And not only that, you have to understand what you're measuring and what it means and how to make a kind of a diagnosis.

And so the problem I had with those, and the reason I don't use them anymore, Is because what we're picking up in the saliva is not always reflective of what's happening systemically. And the best example came, and this is what opened my eyes to it, was that you have people that are clinically nitric oxide deficient.

And this is, and this came from a 50 year old man we were, we were trying to figure out. He had a high blood pressure, he was diabetic, he had severe erectile dysfunction, and he was short of breath and he was developing brain fog. So those are all the clinical kind of presentations of nitric oxide deficiency.

So we go, oh look, we'll take this test strip and let's measure your levels. And [00:08:00] he lit it up like a Christmas tree, in fact, to the levels that said optimal.

And so I'm thinking, I go, how can this be? This can't be. And then through understanding what we're measuring and what it means, we did a full oral exam and a perio exam, and we found out that this guy had severe oral dysbiosis.

and severe oral infections. So what we were measuring in the saliva was reflective of a local immune response in the mouth that was completely disconnected to what was happening systemically. So those are false positives. So then I got away from using those because I think it could mislead and misguide, you know, therapy or give people a false sense of security and they go, Oh, well, I don't need nitric oxide because I'm lighting this up.

I'm using your own test. You're telling me that I'm optimal. And so that, that created a problem. And I just, uh, I don't use those anymore.

Jacqueline: Interesting. See, perfect person to ask that. I'm glad I asked that question. Um, no, I have yet to use them. I just, I've heard a lot of folks

talking about them. it's it's, a good [00:09:00] conversation starter because there are no false, false negatives. 

Dr. Nathan: So if you have a normal patient population and they apply some saliva to the test strip and it shows that they're low. They're low. I mean, that's, that's true. Now, what it doesn't tell us is why are you nitric oxide deficient?

Is it because of your diet? Is it because you're using fluoride? Is it because you're using antiseptic mouthwash? Is it because you can't make stomach acid? Are you taking antacids? Is it because you're just unhealthy and have endothelial dysfunction? So then, until you know that, it's hard to intervene and, and guide these patients on what the best solution is for their individual condition.

Jacqueline: Right. So many different contributing factors, but with that, Dr. Nathan, I'd love to start with the oral microbiome and you already mentioned it, but you know, the pervasive use of fluoride, mouthwash, these are all things that folks I think, you know, do in an attempt to benefit their oral health, but it really is actually doing the opposite.

And can you just touch on the relationship between our oral [00:10:00] microbiome and our ability to produce nitric oxide?

Dr. Nathan: Well, let's go back a hundred years, because I think we have to understand what led us to this point, and then that gives us kind of a guidance on how do we correct the, the path and, and right the ship. Over a hundred years ago, it was first recognized that oral pathogens were causing systemic disease.

And that's why when you go to your dentist and you've got bleeding gums upon probing, there's translocation of oral bacteria into the bloodstream and it causes systemic inflammation and increases the risk of heart attack and stroke. So back then, a hundred years ago, they thought, well, let's give an antiseptic, an antibiotic, in the mouth, kill all the bacteria, and then we can mitigate the translocation and the increased risk of heart attack and stroke.

And that's called the oral systemic link. But that was long before it was ever recognized that there are bacteria that live in and on our body that outnumber our human cells ten to one. So today we know that the microbiome is extremely [00:11:00] important for systemic health, right? And just like you shouldn't, no one would take an antibiotic, an oral antibiotic, every day for the rest of their life because we now know it causes systemic disease. So similarly, You shouldn't take an antiseptic mouthwash or be exposed to fluoride every day to destroy the oral microbiome because now we know it's causing systemic disease. Now go back 20, 25 years. It was first recognized that there are bacteria on the crypts of the tongue that are what we call nitrate reducers.

They're taking nitrate that's found in green leafy vegetables and converting that and metabolizing it into nitrite and nitric oxide. And humans don't have the capability to do this. We do not have the gene to do this metabolism. So we're a hundred percent dependent upon the bacteria, specifically the bacteria that live in the mouth.

So if you're doing things to destroy these bacteria, such as Drinking fluorinated water, which is in our municipal water [00:12:00] supply, using fluoride in your toothpaste, or using an antiseptic mouthwash like Listerine, Scope, Chlorhexidine, to completely eradicate the oral bacteria. And you see the commercials, you see it kills 99.

9 percent of the bacteria in your mouth. That is a true statement, but it's not a healthy statement. I mean, you should avoid it because of that.

Jacqueline: Right.

Dr. Nathan: we published, and several other groups published, that if you use mouthwash, it kills the microbiome. It shuts down nitric oxide production, and we can see an increase in blood pressure.

And that is transformative, it's paradigm shifting because high blood pressure is the number one risk factor for the number one killer of men and women worldwide, which is cardiovascular disease. So if we can figure out how to normalize blood pressure, we can begin to impact the onset and progression of cardiovascular disease. And that's huge because no one's ever considered this before.

Jacqueline: So fascinating. Going back to mouthwash [00:13:00] though, Dr. Nathan, would you define an antiseptic mouthwash as anything that contains alcohol? Because I know Listerine , does like have an alcohol free mouthwash line. Um, I'm a huge fan of, again, natural alternatives. There's a brand called Risewell that uses hydroxyapatite, uh, in their toothpaste instead of fluoride,, to help, you know, remineralize teeth and build tooth enamel.

I'm sure you've heard of it. Um, I like to do oil pulling. That's kind of my quote unquote alternative for using mouthwash, but there are a lot of natural mouthwashes out there too. So I guess my question for you is like, what should listeners be avoiding? Is it just mouthwash containing alcohol or are these other natural alternatives also not great?

Dr. Nathan: Well, we've learned a lot, but you know, there's still a lot we don't know. So I'll tell you what we, what we know and kind of where we're headed. So anything that says antiseptic, alcohol based mouthwash are antiseptic and they should be avoided. But even the non alcohol mouth rinses have chemical antibiotics, chemical antibacterial [00:14:00] substances.

You know, chlorhexidine isn't a mouthwash base, but it's a chemical antibacterial, they use it for surgical scrubs to clean the skin before surgery and making a certain incision on the skin to kind of sanitize the skin. So we know that anything that says antiseptic, antibacterial, is not good and should be avoided, but here's what we don't know.

We don't know the effects of You know, like natural, uh, you know, essential oils and we've done some initial testing and all pulling doesn't seem to destroy the bacteria. We just don't know what it's doing to the diversity of the microbiome and same thing with. with these, uh, other so called natural alternatives.

But here's what we've been focused on for the past four to five years, because this is a major problem. Almost all toothpastes have fluoride in it, and two out of three Americans use antiseptic mouthwash every day. So what I've been working on for the past four to five years is, how do we develop a toothpaste, a fluoride free toothpaste, [00:15:00] that number one, can still remineralize teeth, prevent cavities and caries, kills the, uh, the oral pathogens, But doesn't destroy the non pathogenic commensal bacteria that's responsible for nitric oxide production. And we finally solved that, and I've got a toothpaste that we're launching, uh, mid March. So in about a month or six weeks, we'll have a nitric oxide friendly toothpaste

on the market that's gonna restore the oral microbiome, preserve oral health. And then we've also been working on a mouth rinse because, you know, a lot of people, most people want to have a fresh breath.

They want to feel the cleanliness of their mouth. And so I've developed a mouth rinse that's going to normalize and optimize salivary pH. It's selectively killing the pathogens and it's enhancing the diversity of the oral microbiome. I'm not a big mouth rinse fan. I don't personally, I've never used a mouthwash.[00:16:00] 

But there are those out there that, that do and that need it because they've got periodontal disease that have gingivitis and they have, you know, these oral pathogens are diagnosed and they need to address them. So I think for those two out of three Americans that use it, And then those dentists that use it clinically in their patients, because they need it, then we're going to provide a safe alternative to the, you know, putting an atomic bomb in your mouth and just

Jacqueline: Right. Very exciting. No, that's that's awesome. I'm excited to try it. Um, one last question on that. What are your thoughts on hydroxyapatite? Has that been shown to limit or impede on nitric oxide

Dr. Nathan: Now, in fact, we're putting that in our toothpaste because the data on hydroxyapatite are really pretty fascinating. It's, you know, it's, it re mineralizes the teeth. We put electrolytes, um, in our toothpaste and we're, you know, creating a buffer to maintain normal salivary pH. Because once your saliva gets acidic, it completely changes.

the microbiome. And then it will assess it establishes an environment for these carries causing [00:17:00] bacteria to sit in and you get cavity. So maintaining optimal salivary pH is absolutely critical. So we're addressing the fundamentals of oral health and in microbiome biology. And I think this toothpaste and mouth rinse are going to change dental medicine and really start to impact public health.

Jacqueline: That's awesome. Very exciting. Has there been any research? Our bodies are incredibly resilient, right? So I'm curious, What research, if any, has there been that shows that, I guess, upon stopping the use of alcohol based mouthwashes and fluoride, does the oral microbiome actually repopulate?

Dr. Nathan: We published on that in 2019. And what we found was it was in four days of stopping antiseptic mouthwash, the oral microbiome completely repopulates. 

It, uh, you know, you increase the diversity. So it's not one of these things that takes time. So, you know, the time is now. So if you're using mouthwash and fluoride in your toothpaste, stop.

Stop 

immediately. And within four days, the [00:18:00] microbiome is, as you said, really resilient, and it repopulates and reforms these biofilms, and it maintains that ecology, provided you're optimizing the environment, maintaining normal salivary pH, keeping it a little bit basic instead of acidic. And then feeding those bacteria, get probiotics and prebiotics and eating a balanced diet in moderation 

with very little sugar,

because sugar is a toxin.

Jacqueline: Yeah, that, that's a whole other conversation. We'll have you back on just to discuss that. But four days, that's wild. What about our gut, our actual like gut microbiomes? Has there been research that shows like how long that takes to, I guess, repopulate or get back to homeostasis after like, series of antibiotics.

Dr. Nathan: You know, we haven't really studied the micro, the gut microbiome in terms of nitric oxide. There's enormous amount of research. I mean, everybody was focused on the gut microbiome 20 years ago. And we just went a little bit upstream and started. where it all begins in the mouth and focusing on the oral microbiome.

But I think if you look at the [00:19:00] data, you know, in some cases we need an antibiotic, an oral antibiotic, if we've got a, an infection and I'm not against that, but I think you have to stick to that regimen of seven to 10 days.

to kill the infection, but then you've got to take action and take steps to restore because those antibiotics kill the pathogens, they kill the, the commensal microbiome, and it causes anomalous dysbiosis.

But I think what we're finding, and I think what the scientific literature will tell us, that it takes, you know, 10 days, 2 weeks, once you stop the antibiotics, and it depends upon the class of antibiotics, you know, what their clearance rate is, what pharmacodynamics are, to clear that from the system and then allow for those bacteria, the good bacteria, to repopulate.

Jacqueline: So interesting. You may have heard of this, , but the protocol back, I don't know, 20 or so years ago, um, for me at least, I was diagnosed with mitral valve prolapse. Um, and the protocol was to take antibiotics prior to every dental cleaning to prevent, you know, bacteria from potentially reaching the heart.

And now [00:20:00] obviously that has changed, but I just recall swallowing these like four horse pills every time I would see the dentist twice a year. And I think back and I'm like, Hmm, that probably wasn't the best for my, you know, gut health, but , hindsight's 20, 20 we live and learn, but it's interesting to see how, you know, that has certainly evolved and the protocols have changed over the years.

Dr. Nathan: Well, I know, you know, medicine is, is risk management and, you know, there's certainly risk in people with, with, you know, heart valve disease, where if there's translocation of bacteria, they can harbor on that and, and really lead to, to heart failure and, you know, they eat that tissue 

and these bacteria just destroy that tissue.

So I think, you know, and everybody's different, right? We have to manage the risk. We have to mitigate the risk the best way possible. Uh, but yeah, we, I think it, that was done with reason, but I think there's better ways today than just, again, antibiotics and antiseptics are atomic bombs that kill everything.

And now we, we've learned enough to where we can be selective. [00:21:00] So, you know, we can be a sniper instead of a shotgun blast and 

really take out, effectively take out the pathogens.

Jacqueline: Yeah. And again, it's acute, um, situations or rather acute doses are certainly different than a more long term, uh, daily consumption of that for sure. So going back to lifestyle strategies, so certainly stopping our use of fluoride, and mouthwash is one. What are some other lifestyle strategies that we can incorporate on a daily basis to help optimize our nitric oxide production?

Dr. Nathan: Well, it's really simple. I tell people you only have to do two things. You have to stop doing the things that we know disrupt nitric oxide production and then start doing things that promote it. So we've addressed getting rid of fluoride, stop using antiseptic mouthwash, and the other big thing to stop are antacids.

Antacids are some of the most dangerous drugs on the market. These drugs, people have been on them for three to five years, have a 40 percent higher incidence of heart attack, stroke, and Alzheimer's. So inhibiting stomach acid production, as a biochemist and [00:22:00] physiologist, is the absolute worst thing you can do for human health.

And they're, they're completely shutting down nitric oxide production. So if you're on antacids, You have to talk to your provider, your prescriber, or if you're taking them over the counter, you have to eventually wean off of these because they're dangerous and they're causing death and destruction and chronic disease.

So once you get rid of antacids, mouthwash, and fluoride, now your body is actually primed to produce nitric oxide on its own, which is what we want to do. And now how do we encourage that? Well, it's moderate physical exercise. You know, 20 30 minutes of moderate exercise a day, or 3 5 minutes of high intensity interval training.

You know, it's been shown to enhance nitric oxide production, stimulate it, and you get the benefits of that. The other thing is deep breathing, nasal breathing. You got mouth breathers out there, they're bypassing this nitric oxide production pathway and it's leading to nitric oxide deficiency. And then the other big thing is a balanced diet in moderation, throwing [00:23:00] in some more green leafy vegetables, a complete avoidance of sugar and sugar laden supplements.

Because sugar is a toxin, it's an addictive substance, it sticks to proteins and enzymes and prevents them from doing their job, and it completely changes the microbiome. And then the other big thing is just 20 30 minutes of direct sunlight a day. And there's certain frequencies and wavelengths of light that can activate nitric oxide production, release nitric oxide from these photolabel stores.

So it's really all the things that we know that have stood the test of time that are health promoting. Balanced diet in moderation, elimination of sugar. Moderate physical exercise and a little bit of sunlight.

Jacqueline: Interesting. I want to delve a bit more into each of those, but going back to exercise, you mentioned high intensity interval training. I'm a huge fan of that. , I recently have gotten more, um, into long distance running, but with that, I guess for long distance runners, like, what does that look like from a nitric oxide perspective? Is that not a good thing to do? [00:24:00] Or like, how does that fare, I guess, with more like resistance training or strength training?

Dr. Nathan: Well, it's individualized because you have to understand when you're doing these ultra, ultra marathons and these prolonged, you know, hour long events, what we're doing is we're diverting blood flow away from the internal organs. We're diverting blood flow away from the kidneys and you'll notice when you're doing marathons of things, you're not making any urine.

The reason for that is because the body has a way of regulating blood flow to the heart, to the skeletal muscles, to maintain the metabolic activity of that, and the, the sacrifice for that are your internal organs. You can develop, you know, large intestine or small intestinal ischemia. You can develop, uh, chronic kidney disease or at least acute kidney injury from that lack of blood flow to the kidneys.

So, well trained athletes are adaptive and their bodies can regulate that. But it's not advisable to someone who's not well trained to go out and do a marathon or half [00:25:00] marathon without training up to that. Because there has to be an adaptive effect of that, an adaptive response to where you're not shutting off blood flow and causing end organ damage.

Jacqueline: right. 

Dr. Nathan: know, I've done the half marathons. I've done the 10 Ks. I've never done a full marathon just because it's 

just. You know, it's time consuming, but you know, for me and for a lot of people who are busy, you know, they don't take time to do, you know, 20, 30 minutes, an hour of exercise a day, whether it's cardio or weight training.

And I think that's where the benefits of high intensity or interval training come in because you don't have the excuse of you don't have enough time. Everybody has three to five minutes and I start my day every morning, I get out of bed and I do 100 pushups and I do 100 squats

and it's increasing my heart rate, it's increasing my breath rate.

And it's, it's. And it's, it's toxic, but it takes me less than four minutes, and you can't, you don't have an excuse. Everybody has four minutes. And I know people who brush their teeth for two minutes and while they're brushing their teeth, you're doing squats for two minutes. 

So it's multitasking [00:26:00] at its best.

So 

Jacqueline: I love that. 

Dr. Nathan: not having enough time is not an excuse anymore.

Jacqueline: No, I couldn't agree more. Um, you mentioned breathing. Is there a particular breathing technique? That we should exercise on a daily basis to help boost nitric oxide production?

Dr. Nathan: Yeah, it's very simple. It's just breathing through your nose. Because the highest concentration of nitric oxide synthase enzymes are found in the nasal epithelium in the upper airways. So when we do nasal breathing, there's mechanoreceptors on these epithelial cells that become activated. And as long as the enzyme is coupled and functional, it produces nitric oxide.

And so, we all know the benefits of, of deep breathing and nasal breathing. It lowers blood pressure. It activates the parasympathetic nervous system. It's relaxing. And why is that? It's because we're producing nitric oxide. We're dilating the bronchial, so we're getting better oxygen exchange. We're dilating the pulmonary artery, so we're improving oxygen uptake and oxygen delivery to every cell in the body.

And so the mouth breathers are [00:27:00] completely bypassing this. And it's leading to oral dysbiosis, it acidifies the, the, the saliva, and they become nitric oxide deficient, they're hypoxic, and it leads to chronic health issues. So mouth taping at night for those mouth breathers I think

is a very good idea. As long as they don't have some obstructive sleep apnea.

I mean, because if they're obstructive and they're taping their mouth, you know, it's your, your body's going to try to wait to figure out a way to get, to get air, but if it's an anatomical issue, you know, I recommend, you know, go see an airway specialist. in dental medicine, who can look at the oral cavity, who can look at the airways and correct it, maybe through appliances or some procedures.

But we have to just do nasal breathing and it's, you know, I like this 10 deep breaths, 5 seconds in, 5 seconds hold it, 5 seconds out. Do that 10 times. I do that in the morning when I sit in my infrared sauna. So I'm at 170 degrees for 30 minutes and during that time I'm doing these [00:28:00] deep breathing and fully oxygenating and that's, that's how I start my day.

Jacqueline: Yeah, I have yet to explore mouth taping. I want my dad to, although he recently shared with me, he has some sleep apnea and funny you mentioned medical appliance because that's what he's actually going to start to use in the next few weeks.

Uh, so we'll see how that fares. 

Dr. Nathan: Yeah, 

Jacqueline: You mentioned sauna.

Can sauna improve nitric oxide production?

Dr. Nathan: it does. SANA has so many benefits. I mean, one, it's just a way to detoxify,

Right.

Because we live in a toxic environment, toxins build up inside our body, and the main routes of detoxification are breathing, de 

breathing, it's sweating, it's urination, and it's defecation. So if we're not breathing right, and we're not sweating, and we're not drinking enough good clean water to fully hydrate and urinate, If we don't have normal bowel movements, then we get a buildup of toxins.

Saunas obviously heat us up, help mobilize fat soluble toxins and excrete them. Um, but if you, I've used an [00:29:00] infrared sauna, and infrared light, those particular frequencies can stimulate nitric oxide release. So you're getting a nitric oxide release, you're detoxifying, when you release nitric oxide, you're dilating the blood vessels and you're enhancing 

Jacqueline: Right. 

Dr. Nathan: and excretion.

Jacqueline: So interesting. Yeah. Huge fan of saunas. Um, you mentioned clean water. You are a wealth of information, Dr. Nathan. So I'm really curious. wHat is the best, in your opinion, water filter out there? Because there, there are so many. I myself have tried, you know, many different ones.

We hear about reverse osmosis, so many different types of technologies, but in your opinion, what is the best one? Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Dr. Nathan: Well, you've got to get water that's full of minerals that are naturally occurring in the earth, right? But that's free of any toxins, drug metabolites, fluoride, municipal water in most municipalities is probably the worst thing you can drink. And more than that, you know, we're bathing in it, we're cooking our food in it, we're drinking it, there's, [00:30:00] you know, drug metabolites in there, there's fluoride in there, and it's just, it's awful.

So I use a home filtration system, and I've investigated a lot of these. The best one, I have no financial interest in this, but a company out of Florida called PH Prescriptions. And I think what, what's happening is they've got a filtration system that's completely removing, you know, things like chlorine, chloramine, fluoride, drug metabolites, all these small molecules that are really hard to filter out.

They've got a system that filters it out. But in the second part of that system, they remineralize with things, the natural minerals that are found naturally in water. So reverse osmosis. You know, drinking pure reverse osmosis water can deplete your body, pull minerals out of your bone. So I'm not a big fan of the distilled water because if you drink too much of it, it'll leach all these minerals out of your bones.

But you, you know, it has to be isosmotic, which means, [00:31:00] you know, it's, it's, it's providing the body with minerals, not pulling minerals out of the body.

Jacqueline: right. Do you supplement with electrolytes?

Dr. Nathan: I do, in fact, one of our products that we make, the fermented beet powder, we put electrolytes in it because we find that most Americans are, have cellular dehydration. Uh, because they're not getting the right nutrients from their food. Uh, they're drinking water that's maybe pulling nutrients out. And so electrolytes are very important.

Um, so yeah, I take electrolytes and periodically I do micronutrient analysis to make sure that My body's replete in the basic micronutrients that it needs for the cell to do its job.

Jacqueline: Interesting. Going back to food, , so I know there's really no such thing as like nitric oxide foods, but there are foods that are known to boost nitric oxide in the body. You mentioned some before, like green leafy vegetables. What are your top three?

Dr. Nathan: You know, from, so what I look at from a perspective is how do I stimulate the natural production of nitric oxide? And so we have [00:32:00] to consider both pathways. How do we stimulate and activate nitric oxide production in the lining of the blood vessels in the nasal epithelium? And so we need magnesium. So I supplement with magnesium because we know that 75 percent of Americans are deficient in magnesium.

Jacqueline: Mm hmm.

Dr. Nathan: think there's like 800 biochemical reactions where nitrogen, where magnesium is a cofactor. So magnesium is, is, is simple, um, and we're not getting it from the foods we eat because it's depleted in the soil. So we almost have to supplement with it. Um, the other is a good source of protein, you know, because we break down proteins into amino acids.

We utilize those amino acids to do neurotransmitters and to do a lot of things. And then the other is green leafy vegetables, you know, if it's high in inorganic nitrate. That the bacteria in the mouth metabolize into nitrite and nitric oxide.

Jacqueline: Mm hmm.

Dr. Nathan: But the most important thing is the elimination of sugar and carbs that disrupt the microbiome, that shut [00:33:00] down the enzymatic production of nitric oxide.

Sugar's the enemy, sugar's the toxin, and we gotta eliminate it.

Jacqueline: Yeah, that all makes sense. you mentioned magnesium as a supplement. I've also read that, is it L arginine? Is that how you pronounce it? Interesting.

Dr. Nathan: the nitric oxide pathway was first discovered. That enzyme converts arginine into nitric oxide. But we're never deficient in L Arginine because L Arginine is what's considered a semi essential amino acid.

And what that means is that we get arginine from the breakdown of proteins.

We come from plant proteins and animal proteins, but we also make, the cell makes arginine through the urea cycle. So every cell in the body has what's called the partial urea cycle where it makes Arginine. So we're never deficient in L Arginine. And as a result, we're never needing to supplement arginine because we're never deficient in arginine.[00:34:00] 

So all of those, in fact, giving arginine to a patient with endothelial dysfunction can actually cause more harm than good. Clinical data published that post infarct patients, you give them arginine and higher mortality. Patients with peripheral heart disease, they get worse when 

they take arginine. So I don't recommend arginine.

I, I, any product that has arginine in it, I typically avoid and tell patients and consumers to avoid it. You don't need it.

Jacqueline: Right. I am curious, Dr. Nathan, which, like, which supplements do you yourself take on a, on a daily basis in addition to magnesium?

Dr. Nathan: You know, I take magnesium at night before I go to bed. Um, and so that's kind of my go to because it's relaxing. It's, it gives me, and I take my nitric oxide lozenge before I go to bed. So it stimulates nitric oxide productions where I can fully oxygenate when I sleep.

Jacqueline: What is that made with?

Dr. Nathan: It's a nitric oxide releasing lozenge.

So I developed a technology that if your body can't make nitric oxide, then we do it for you. So you put it in your mouth, it slowly dissolves over 5 to 6 [00:35:00] minutes, and it's releasing therapeutic amounts of nitric oxide. It's dilating blood vessels, improving blood oxygen saturation, it mobilizes stem cells.

So when I sleep, I want to, I want to repair the dysfunctional cells, and I want to mobilize my own stem cells so I can repair and replace dysfunctional cells. That's one of the main benefits of sleep. But that only happens if your body can make nitric oxide to mobilize stem cells to repair while you sleep. And then when I wake up in the morning, I do a 16 18 hour fast every day. So I wake up in the morning and I take an amino acid, uh, because I don't want pro I don't want my muscle and bone to break down during that fast. What else do I take? I take an algae product, spirulina and chlorella. Uh, you know, kind of nutrients from the sea.

And then I take, um, um, organ meat capsules from a company called Wild Mamas. It's wild, organic, raised, pasture raised bison [00:36:00] organs.

Jacqueline: I use ancestral supplements, but I haven't yet heard of that one. I have to check them

Dr. Nathan: Yeah, no, those are good. I think I don't personally like to eat organ meat. So I just, you know, these companies do a really good job of creating really good high quality organ meat capsules that I consume. And then I take salmon roe from the same company. So I try to get the best. Nutrient dense foods from the seed, the salmon row, the carella and the spirulina, and then from the land, the wild bison, organ meats, and that gives you all the kind of basic micronutrients and macronutrients you need to start the day.

Jacqueline: Has there been any research around animal protein versus plant protein when it comes to, I guess, looking at it from like how to optimize a nitric oxide lens,

Dr. Nathan: You know, I'm not a big fan of all these extreme diets. I think there's benefits to a straight vegan diet and vegetarian diet, especially have, you know, advanced coronary artery disease. The data on reversing. disease from a plant based diet is pretty convincing. Um, [00:37:00] I'm more of a kind of a carnivore. I'm not straight keto.

I, you know, I'll eat some salads and, and, and meat in moderation. Um, but no, the, whatever the source of the protein is, you have to have sufficient stomach acid production to break that protein down into amino acids because humans are not designed to incorporate plant proteins. Or animal proteins into human proteins, right?

It's a foreign protein and our body would make antibodies against it. So the way the GI system works is we have to make stomach acid to break down those animal proteins or plant proteins into amino acids. And then the human body, the cells take in those amino acids and then we make human proteins out of this.

So inhibiting stomach acid production leads to a lack of digestion of proteins. Then what happens is you get peptide fragments transported across the gut. Now you develop antibodies against those and develop food borne allergies. It all goes back to antacids, at

Jacqueline: Right. For someone who's [00:38:00] been on and antacid, I had a friend who took Prilosec for like probably over a decade, Dr. Nathan. I mean, aside from like, you know, having probiotics and you know, fermented foods and changing their diet, what else could they do to help like. Could digestive enzymes help restore stomach acid?

Again, I don't know too much how that works, but

how do you,

like restore your integrity there?

Dr. Nathan: well, you have to, you have to support stomach acid production. So the pyloric cells, the cells that line the stomach that create hydrochloric acid to acidify the stomach, it's a biochemical reaction. So you have to understand the biochemistry. So for this biochemistry to occur, you need iodine. You need B vitamins.

You need sodium bicarb, you need sodium chloride to make this chemical reaction go. And so if you can't make stomach acid, you can't absorb iodine, you can't absorb B vitamins, and you've lost the ability to secrete stomach acid production. So you have to supplement, number one, you have to wean off the N acids.

And [00:39:00] you can't just stop these drugs cold turkey. You've got to wean off of them over 10 to 20 days. And so I tell people, whatever dose you're taking now, take half that dose and take that half dose for 10 days. Then after 10 days, take that half dose every other day. And then after 10 days, you can stop.

So you slowly have to get these, these drugs out of your system. But during that time, you obviously have to take my nitric oxide lozenge, because that's the only source of nitric oxide you're. you're getting. And then supplement with things like iodine, betaine hydrochloride, B vitamins, the things you need for your body to produce stomach acid on its own.

And then before a meal, take apple cider vinegar, you know, a teaspoon or tablespoon of apple cider vinegar, and that'll acidify the lumen. And now you can get better digestion, eliminate the reflux you had in the first place, because your body's not trying to 

Get rid of or expectorate the undigested food stuff Well,

Jacqueline: Wow. So much [00:40:00] here. One other thing too, Dr. Nathan, I wanted to cover. I looked at the clock. I was like, how have we been talking already for 40 minutes, but there's so much to cover. Um, When we first kicked off this conversation, you mentioned, you know, how nitric oxide plays a critical role in like the development of a lot of chronic disease.

One of which is, you know, Alzheimer's and dementia. So I'd love if you could explain the connection there, right, between nitric oxide and the development of dementia, , because that's certainly, you know, sadly a disease that many, many folks suffer from. And if there is anything that we could be doing now, you know, to help prevent that, um, or even for folks who already have an onset of it, just from, an optimizing nitric oxide level, that would be.

incredibly beneficial.

Dr. Nathan: it's the most feared disease today as the age of the people the baby boomers get older, you know, it's you know It's it's the numbers are staggering. Um, but yeah, so what is alzheimer's it's the end result of what we call vascular dementia So there's a progression of disease that [00:41:00] that terminates with alzheimer's we first call it mild cognitive impairment then that develops into vascular dementia and it's called vascular dementia because The ideology of the dementia is a lack of regulation of blood flow to the brain.

And so through non invasive imaging spec scans, which look at how well perfused the brain is or functional MRI, the metabolic activity, we can see that in any patient from mild cognitive impairment to vascular dementia, there's a decrease in blood flow to certain regions of the brain. So if you're not getting adequate oxygenation.

And nutrients to those cells, those cells can't do their job. So what do they do? They develop insulin resistance. You can't get glucose into the cells and the brain primarily uses glucose as its primary energy source. So we get Tau tangles, we get amyloid plaque, we get inflammation, neuroinflammation, mitochondria become uncoupled and we're producing a lot of superoxide and hydroxyl radicals, oxidative stress, we develop immune [00:42:00] dysfunction, and we develop antibodies against these misfolded proteins.

And what is that? Well, it's lack of blood flow, it's insulin resistance, inflammation, oxidative stress, and immune dysfunction, and that describes Alzheimer's. So if we can prevent this decline in nitric oxide production and give nitric oxide based therapies, we dilate the blood vessels, we can start oxygenating the tissue, we can enhance insulin signaling and insulin sensitivity, so now we can get glucose into the cell, the cell can do its job, we recouple the mitochondria so we're no longer producing oxidative stress. You get the good stuff in, you take out the metabolic waste product, you eliminate tau tangles, you eliminate theta amyloid plaque, and you completely address the root cause of Alzheimer's. So we've got a, my company, Bryan Therapeutics, we're developing Alzheimer's based nitric oxide therapies. And as we move these through clinical trials through the FDA, um, I'm pretty convinced that the nitric oxide therapy will completely eradicate [00:43:00] Alzheimer's 

in the next decade.

10 15 years,

Jacqueline: That's fascinating. Are you, um, exploring any research with cancer?

Dr. Nathan: you know, we've there's so many other things that we can address and have an impact on public health before we do Cancer, there's so many confounding 

factors. It depends on the type of cancer and you know, cancer is a metabolic disease So I think if we do our job in developing safe and effective nitric oxide therapies, we can certainly address the metabolic aspect So I think maybe indirectly we'll have a positive impact on cancer, but to answer your question, no, we're not, we're not developing anti cancer therapies.

What we do, we do what we know. I understand vascular biology. I understand normal human metabolism, how the human body makes nitric oxide, what goes wrong in people that can't make it, and we know how to correct that. And I think we can address things like ischemic heart disease, Alzheimer's, topical drugs for diabetic ulcers, non healing wounds.

Things [00:44:00] like 

pulmonary hypertension, congestive heart failure.

That would 

Jacqueline: heart failure. I was going to ask you that.

Yeah, 

Dr. Nathan: that, that, that will give us enough runway and that'll keep us busy 

for 

Jacqueline: Wow. What research, Dr. Nathan, has there been that have shown like, or that has shown rather that like nitric oxide declines as we age? I mean, has that, like, does that always have to be the case? We touched on again so many wonderful lifestyle strategies that folks can implement today.

But I mean, just aging itself, like, is that an, you know, contributing factor to a decrease in nitric oxide.

Dr. Nathan: Yeah, aging is the number one predictor of loss of nitric oxide or the number, the number one risk factor for loss of nitric oxide.

But now that we understand how the human body makes nitric oxide, we can actually prevent that age related decline. And in some, some cases we can actually accelerate it. You know, we're seeing 20, 25 year old kids that have the nitric oxide production of what a normal 60 to 70 year old would have

Jacqueline: Why is that?[00:45:00] 

Dr. Nathan: well, it's these, these kids that are eating processed foods and their couch potatoes, they're not getting exercise and they're living the Western life and they're metabolically challenged.

And so then to the other side of the coin is, you know, I'm 51 years old, but I've got the vascular age of a 30 something year old. So we know that we can shift this to the left or the right depending upon what we put in our body, what we do, the decisions we make, and how much discipline we have. You 

know, I just want to make sure that I can live the best quality of life that I can as long as I can.

I mean, we're not immortal. Everybody dies at some 

point, but, you know, I want to live a healthy life as long as I can to leave a lasting impact.

Jacqueline: Yeah, I love that. I couldn't agree more. Yeah, I had a conversation the other day with a friend, and I'm Christian Dr. Nathan, and one thing that I've, I've come to realize, and I don't know if you know this, my mom was diagnosed with stage four breast cancer back in 2018. She's the reason why I started Well and Strong.

Um, so [00:46:00] I'm super passionate about integrative medicine. That's been like the heart, the key cornerstone content of Well and Strong. Over the years, especially this past year, I've kind of developed a new perspective. on all things health in the sense of, you know, I think in this age of biohacking and longevity and trying to extend our lifespans, we get so caught up, um, in doing like, you know, all these things that are thrown at us.

But I think in the grand scheme of life, like we are to be stewards of our bodies, right? We are to do what we can do. But at the end of the day, we have to recognize that all of our days have already been written right in God's book. And there is nothing that we ourselves can do to extend the days that he has given us.

And that has brought a lot of comfort and peace to me again in a space and you're in the space as well, where there's this constant influx of do this to, you know, live an extra 20 years, but we're not in control of that. Right. So I think just. Having that different perspective and how we approach the things that we do for our health, alleviates a lot of [00:47:00] anxiety.

And even in just, you know, the treatments that my mom has done and, the journey we've had over the past six years, it's, it's brought a lot of comfort. Um, so that's kind of been my, uh, Insight.

Dr. Nathan: a lot through science, but, you know, I think it's having conversations with our Creator that really lead us to the inside, because

we're divine created, divinely created and, you know, God doesn't make mistakes. There's a lot of things that happen that we don't understand, but we trust and have faith that it's, you know, it all 

happens for a reason. It's not what happens to us that matters, it's how we react to what happens to us that

Jacqueline: Yeah. Amen. A hundred percent. And I think that, and I'm sure you've experienced this too, just in your career, but the more I learn and my background is in economics and finance, so completely unrelated to all integrative medicine, but I call myself a researcher at heart when people ask, what is your background?

I'm like, I'm a researcher, but the more that I learned, , the more conversations like these that I have, the more I, I see God's hand in everything. You know, like it's just. It's wild, our bodies, how they [00:48:00] work, just, we're truly miracles.

We're walking miracles.

Dr. Nathan: Absolutely. Now, when I look at how resilient the human body is, I mean, the abuse that some people do to their body and the life they live and the fact that their 

body still performs and they're alive and they didn't go on, you know, but it's, you know, no, it's, it's, it's amazing. The human body is an amazing creation.

You know, we got to take care of it and honor it.

Jacqueline: Well, Dr. Nathan, this has been one of my favorite conversations to date. I think you are wonderful. I'm a big fan of your work. I'm really excited to share this episode. But with that, where can listeners find you and learn more about all the wonderful things that you are doing?

Dr. Nathan: You know, I try to create education and content. I got a YouTube channel, Dr. Nathan S. Brian, nitric oxide. Um, you know, we have information out there. My number one objective is just to educate and informal nitric oxide so we can empower patients and consumers to, to, you know, take control of their own health [00:49:00] and get a little bit of information on nitric oxide.

Uh, I've got an educational website, Dr. Nathan S. Bryan. Uh, I'm on social media, Instagram, Dr. Nathan S. Bryan, LinkedIn, Twitter. I'm a Dr. Nitric. And then I've got a new book coming out, uh, February 24th.

It's called The Secret of Nitric Oxide, Bringing the Science to Life.

Jacqueline: Oh my goodness. 

Dr. Nathan: I will, um, yeah, but this chronicles kind of my 25 years in science.

It's part autobiographical, we talk about the discovery of nitric oxide, what it is, 

what it does. So February 24th is the official launch. I'll be on 34 morning shows, doing live interviews, talking about the book and the science

Jacqueline: That's incredible. Wow. Well, I am so excited that I had you on today. Prior to that, I will be picking up a copy of your book. Certainly, um, I will be linking all of that in the show notes. So that's wow. Very, very exciting. Congratulations.

Dr. Nathan: Thank you.

Jacqueline: My last question for you, Dr. Nathan. This is always my favorite one to ask.

Dr. Nathan: Okay. 

Jacqueline: that is what does being well and strong mean to you? I[00:50:00] 

Dr. Nathan: You know, and it allows me to do what, you know, I wake up every day with a servant's heart and try to figure out how to, you know, I think our time on here is we're serving others and if we don't have our health, you know, we're compromised in our ability to, to do our job. But for me, it's doing the things I want to do, not doing the things that I have to do with the people that I want to do it with.

you know, that's for me, it's waking up every morning with a purpose in living out our mission of service.

Jacqueline: Beautiful. Well, you're certainly doing that. Um, again, kudos to you for all the wonderful work you've done. So excited to share this. And yeah, I hope to have you on again at some point soon. There's so much to discuss.

Dr. Nathan: Let's do it. Yeah. It's 45 minutes. Isn't a lot of time to discuss nitric oxide science.

Thank you.


People on this episode

Head Shot

Jacqueline Genova

Host