How To Be WellnStrong

85: What To Do When Your Emotions Don't Tell the Truth | Gina Pope

• Jacqueline Genova • Episode 85

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Today's episode is very special to me because I get to sit down and chat with my cousin Gina. I always joke with her that any of our phone conversations would make great podcast episodes, so I figured we might as well record one. In this episode, Gina and I discuss how to trust God when our feelings suggest otherwise, what to do when our thoughts don’t align with scripture, how to make decisions when we feel like we aren't getting a clear answer from God, and the power of speaking the word.


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*Unedited Transcript*
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Jacqueline: [00:00:00] Welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you on. And it's really funny because for listeners, Gina's mom is my Aunt Maryann who I had on the podcast, I want to say last year, and your mom's episode Gina continues to be one of my all time favorites.

Um, and I love you so much. And you are Like a sister to me. And I'm so excited just to sit down and talk with you today. And I was texting you last night saying that I didn't really have an outline. But I was just going, Gina, through your blog.

Um, You know, the past few days and I was like, there's just so much I want to cover. So I do have some excerpts of things, that you've written that I would just love to share. But beyond that, I'm kind of just going to take this as a phone call, uh, that you and I have take this like a phone call because I always joke with you that I could just record our phone calls and it could be an episode in itself.

Gina: I love our phone calls, so.

Jacqueline: They're my favorite.

Gina: Me too.

Jacqueline: So I guess just to kick things off, Gina, and again, I like to, to cover things that [00:01:00] I have been struggling with, right? Um, and I think it's really interesting because the more I get into podcasting, and you and I have discussed this, but the more I kind of step away from like the physical aspect of health and wellness to more about the spiritual side, I uncover so many truths, right?

That continue just to help me in my journey, um, you know, with my mom and even in my own health and It's been so much more transformative and powerful beyond learning any type of like physical biohacking, . Um, but I think I want to start Gina in talking about emotions because this is something you and I talk about all the time.

, prior to this call, we were talking about this for about 10 minutes, but, um, One of your blog posts, you say that, our souls, which many define as the mind, will and emotions don't always automatically do what they're supposed to. And sometimes, truth be told, we have to remind them what to do, right?

And that's even in the midst of really challenging emotions and, you know, [00:02:00] things that are often irrational that we just, you know, feel, right? My dad always says emotions aren't rational. They just are. So I guess my question to you is when we're in the midst of those times, right? When we're, you know, overpowered and overcome by really strong emotions.

How do we remind our souls what to do?

Gina: That's such a good question. And you said something a few minutes ago in the intro about truths and uncovering truths. And for me, everything always goes back to truth because that's my passion. I love, love truth because truth is what sets us free when we know it. But you're right. Our emotions, they are very real.

They're very real. They're neither right nor wrong, but they're very real. But they are not always true. And so what do I mean by that? You might have a, a child who's mad at their parents for not letting them go out and play. And that kid, that child's like, my parents don't love me. Well, clearly that's not true, but that's what their [00:03:00] emotions say.

And one thing we have to do is when we have these emotions, They don't have to control us. If I'm annoyed one day because I'm busy and I'm running around and I just haven't gotten everything done, I might be frazzled, but that's not the truth. The truth is that I have the peace of God. So do I let my emotions control me or do I tell my emotions Hey, this is truth.

And sometimes when I talk about in that blog, you know, talking to our souls and how do we think your question was, how do we remind, remind, you know, our emotions and remind ourselves, and part of that is knowing truth. So we have to know truth. And for me, I believe truth is found in God's word. I know you and I share that belief.

So we have to know what it says. So then when we have emotions that counter that, we can say to our emotions, No, that's not true. And that might sound kind of weird, you know, talking to our emotions, but I put around the house before talking, you know, if I'm having, Oh yeah. Oh yeah. If I'm, if I'm feeling anxious, I'll go around the house.

Well, no, the peace of God guards, guards, my heart and mind in Christ [00:04:00] Jesus. And no, I have a sound mind. And so I speak those things and I'm not trying to sound like, Oh, I then feel great all of a sudden, but I always end up coming out of that because truth always wins.

Jacqueline: Yeah. No, that's so good. I know it's funny. I feel like I'll, I'll walk around my apartment sometimes and I always joke that my neighbors are probably like, does this woman live by herself or does she live with someone else? Cause I'm, I'm always just speaking out loud. Um, and even too, I had this woman on, her name was Joe Hargreaves last week.

You have to listen to her episode. I'm going to share it actually next week, but she is a, um, Christian psychologist, her, her, like, um, her Instagram handles the faith filled therapist. And we were just talking about intrusive thoughts and how to deal with intrusive thoughts. And one of the first things she said was, you know, we have to be aggressive, like when those thoughts come, right.

And that literally means like taking them captive and speaking truth, even if that is out loud. Um. Yeah. Right. Right. And one thing I remember too, Gina, when I was, when I was very young, I always struggled with [00:05:00] anxiety ever since like first grade. And I remember at night my mom would come in and she would always tell me this one verse, for the Lord has not given me a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind.

And I would just recite that to myself over and over and over again. And it's funny because like, 20 years later, I look at that and I say, wow, like that same practice that helped me so much when I was six, seven years old, I can look back and like, I use it now. Um, and it really does like ingrain those truths in your subconscious.

Gina: Well, you mentioned that you speak them and that that is so important because we can know truth, but there really is power in speaking it. You know, if we look at even in scripture, look at creation, how did creation happen? God spoke. God didn't think. God spoke. I mean, I'm sure God thought as well, but, but God spoke.

And there is power in our words. You know, scripture tells us life and death is in the power of the tongue. So it's more than just knowing truth. Sometimes we do have to say it out loud, and that's fine if the neighbors think that, you know, a crowd [00:06:00] lives in your apartment, um, because it's okay. It just, it's worth it to speak that truth.

Jacqueline: Yeah. No, that's so good. Beyond that though, Gina, like beyond emotions, let's look at it in the context of physical health, right? And. Again, you and I have these conversations all the time. We're like, Gina, I'm feeling this. Like recently I've been having blurred vision over the past week and it's been creating a lot of angst and anxiety.

And, and how do we like, how do we cope with that when like our physical symptoms are, you know, presenting a problem, like we're experiencing blurry vision or experiencing some type of pain, right? And we're continuing to like, speak truth, like we are healed, we are whole, but those symptoms are still physically persisting.

And I know you have battled with this quite a bit, you know, from different injuries you've had. Gina is also a runner. Um, she is my, my inspiration and my reason behind wanting to get back into running. But how have you just dealt with that? over, you know, over the course of your lifetime.

Gina: Yeah. And you're right. I've had some, some chronic pain the past [00:07:00] couple years. Um, that is getting better and I believe I am healed. And I think what's important is we can't deny, we're not denying pain. We're not denying sickness and pretending it doesn't exist. It's a fact, but there is a truth that is greater.

than the fact. And this is where we have to think about the different realms that we live in. We're in a physical world right now, but there, there's a spiritual world that's very, very real. And scripture tells us that when Jesus died on the cross for us, he took our sin and he took our sickness. He bought healing for us at that moment.

So we have already been made whole, similar to salvation. Salvation was completed. with that work on the cross. Now, it doesn't mean that salvation is mine until I receive it. Similarly, it doesn't mean healing is mine until I receive it. And what I mean by that is not some esoteric, you know, how do I, how do you receive healing?

But it's, do I believe the word [00:08:00] of God says above what my symptoms say? Cause sometimes we'll tell us. There's pain. There's disease. And that's not a denial of the reality. It's just like, you know, yeah, that's a reality, but there is a greater truth and I'm going to stand on that truth, regardless of how long it takes to manifest.

Now, does that mean we don't pursue medical science? No, medical science has the same. aim that we do, and the same aim of scripture, wholeness and health. So it's fine to pursue, you know, medical treatment. I've done it. I'm, you know, we've talked about it. You

know, it's, it's, 

Jacqueline: Gina, can you share what you always say about, about Luke? You shared it with me the other day too, cause I just, I 

Gina: Yeah. 

Jacqueline: that.

Gina: Yeah. I've often said that in scripture, you know, Luke was a physician and we never see Jesus telling him to go and sin no more. So I kind of use that as a joke, but you know, Luke was a physician and it wasn't called out in scripture as like, this is terrible. It's like, no, he had the same goal healing, but it's, it's a question of, am I willing to stand [00:09:00] firmly when anything else says something different when my symptoms, my emotions, do I believe what the word of God says that I have been healed?

And yes, I do. And I've often said, like, I don't care what happens. around me, I will go to my grave saying the word of God is true and everything else is a liar.

So even if I don't understand things, do I believe that the word of God is true? Yes. And it is never his will for us to be sick. Scripture says over and over again, you never find an occasion of Jesus turning away someone who came to him for healing.

Never, he healed all who came to him for healing?

Jacqueline: Yeah. Gina, for someone who is new to faith, um, or has perhaps this is the first time they're hearing about Jesus, which is, you know, would be wonderful. what does that look like? Right? Like, what does that actually look like to receive? Healing from Jesus, like to, to be open in faith because again, there, I feel like there's so many different avenues to do this, right?

Like there is, you know, people pursue laying of the hands and, [00:10:00] and I feel like there, again, there's a lot of different modalities to quote unquote, like receive healing and different things that people say, but what does that actually look like?

Gina: I think sometimes we overcomplicate it, and I know I've overcomplicated it many times in my life. Like we look at scripture, it's like, well, there was a handkerchief here, so we must all need handkerchiefs. Or there was, I don't know, there was mud here, so we must near, you know, need mud. But it's not the mechanism, it's the healer.

So it's not looking at what, and this is something I'm even learning a lot recently, like, it's not looking at what do I need to do, it's switching that focus to what has Jesus already done. And we are loving Jesus the most when we receive what he has already done for us, because he wants to pour out on us, that's who he is.

So it's not a question of, oh, how do I, what do receive my healing? No, I just need to say, Jesus, I receive what you've already done for me and believe that. And then in just as there, there is a God, there is a devil and the enemy will always [00:11:00] come and try to tell us lies. That's what he does. He's never, and if you look at from the garden of Eden to today, the devil is not very creative.

All he knows how to do is lie. That's what he does. So anything that comes to our mind that is contrary to what the word of God says, we have to recognize it as a lie. Then turn back to the word of God says, but receiving is not about a formula. It's not about, do I need to go to this service? Do I need to chase this evangelist?

Because then it puts it on us rather than what on Jesus has already done for us.


Jacqueline: Leads right into my next question.

Gina: Yeah. 

Jacqueline: I mean, you just mentioned it before, like, it's not that we don't necessarily, like, it's not a sin to pursue medical intervention, right? Like you said, doctors and God have the same goal, not as to, to heal, but, and I've spoken with you about this many a time, but even like me and my mom's example, I always struggle with, you know, and you mentioned it before, like the Bible says, [00:12:00] like, having done all, stand, right?

I always struggle with. What is having done all because I feel like there are so many like I would go to the ends of the earth, you know, for my mom, you know that and I think like we have done so many different things. And in the back of my mind, I'm always like, but there's one more, right? Like there's still something else to be done.

And in our human minds. You know, that, that hold on to control. I feel like we're always thinking, you know, if we just did this one more thing, like the outcome would have been different. So I guess my question is like, what is the line between doing as much as we can do versus also just taking a step back and letting God.

be God, right? Because God says like, all of our days are written in a book before one yet came to be. And that has given me so much peace. But we don't see the future, right? Like God does. So I feel like we're just here. When I say we, I mean, I, I'm just here like [00:13:00] running around in circles thinking, okay, like, what else can I do?

What else can I do before I can quote unquote stand and let God do the rest? Does that make sense?

Gina: It does. It does. And I, I don't know that I have the, the, the, the perfect one size fits all answer to that. I will say that scripture on standing comes after the scriptures on putting on the whole armor of God. So after we have put on the whole armor of God, which is breastplate of righteousness, truth, putting truth on, taking up our shield of faith.

When we've done all that, then we stand. But I know in, in my, I'll give you an example. for, you know, for me, I've had, I don't even know how many doctors and physical therapists over the years. And I realized, I came to a point where I really felt the Holy Spirit saying to me, you know, just let me heal you.

And I was like, Oh, but if I attach onto this physical therapist, then I have a chance for an answer. And there was a fear in, in walking away from that. Cause it's like, well, what if they're going to come up with something?

But I really felt after multiple years, the Lord was like, just, [00:14:00] And so I was like, okay, so I stopped like I'm, I'm, I'm done and Lord, you are my healer.

So I can't say that this is the point, like once you reach five years or, you know, or, or four different doctors, that's the point. But I do think it's important to look at how are we viewing, um, what we're doing? Are we doing it out of fear? Because we feel like if we let it go. that's what we're looking to for our solutions?

Or are we doing it while still relying fully in faith on what Jesus has done? Because if there's fear in our actions and, and I've acted out of fear lots of times, but if there's fear in our actions and that's not the good, the right motivator.

Jacqueline: yeah,

Gina: So I don't have the perfect answer. I wish I did. But I do think it's important to look and say, okay, what, why am I doing this?

Am I doing this because I'm so afraid to let it go because I feel like I have to do something more or am I doing it because I, oh, I [00:15:00] feel really, really peaceful and this is this. I feel like the Lord is leading me in this direction. Um, So that's, um, I wish I had the right answer. I don't have a perfect one size fits all, um, but that's where I feel that the Holy Spirit wants to be our teacher and will teach us when we, when we ask him.

Jacqueline: Yeah. No, that's, that's very, again, you're full of wisdom. And I think that's a beautiful answer on the topic of peace. So when we're in the midst of those, you know, making those decisions, aside from God appearing to us in a burning bush, like Moses, how. Like, I guess what framework do you have for making those decisions, right?

And you spoke about peace and, you know, the Bible says the peace of God will, what's that verse with the peace, like the peace of God will guard,

Gina: It will guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. And there's also the verse. I can't remember if it's the same one, a different translation or a different verse, but let the peace of God rule in our hearts and minds acting as an umpire. One of the translation says acting as an umpire in our hearts.

Jacqueline: Right. And I know there's been times [00:16:00] even for me where I have felt peace about a decision and you know, you're like, that's the peace of God, like trust that, hold on to that. But for folks who. Like, do you experience that peace? Right. But then also like wonder, like, is this piece actually really from God?

Like, how do you make that distinction? And I know in the past too, like we've spoken about God closing doors and God opening doors. And I know some people are of the mindset of, you know, Continue to proceed until, like, there's a red light, right? Like, if there's green light, green light, green light, just keep going and acting in faith and taking those steps.

What are your thoughts on, on that philosophy, too, when it comes to, like, decision making and, you know, if we're not 100 percent clear on, on what God is saying?

Gina: I tend to take the approach of, I assume I have a green light unless I have a red light, unless it's something that scripture has been very clear about, obviously, you know, but I think one thing we have to remember stepping back a minute is that God wants to lead us. It is his heart to lead us. [00:17:00] His heart is not to keep us, you know, Hey, I'm going to look down there at Gina or Jacqueline, and I'm just going to make it really hard for them to figure out what I want because I just need to browbeat them into learning a lesson.

Like, that is not who our Lord is. He wants to lead us. And some people feel like they want to pray about anything and everything. Should I go to the grocery store today? There's not a sin in that, like, that's fine, you know, it's not a sin, but I do believe that if our heart is to hear the Lord, if we're spending time with him, if we're in relationship with him, if we're doing something that is going to put us in danger.

He's going to let us know,

Jacqueline: Yeah.

Gina: you know, if I have a really super close friend and I'm with them all the time and they see me about to, you know, run my car off a lead, they're going to tell me. So I think we need to step back and just remember that the Lord wants to lead us. He wants to shepherd us. [00:18:00] And if we, and it goes back to the whole idea of receiving.

Is it because I do everything perfectly right that God leads me? Is that what makes me good enough for God to lead me? Well, no, it's because of what Jesus has already done. that I have the righteousness of Jesus before God, and he leads me as his sheep.

Jacqueline: Yeah. And that again, it reminds me of one of my favorite verses, Proverbs 3, 5, 6, right? Trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding and all your ways acknowledge him and he'll make your path straight. You had a beautiful blog post on this, um, making decisions and, and leaning not on an understanding.

And you said something to that, like in your own life, familiarity can sometimes work against understanding as easy to simply skim over the verse and not really pay attention to it. And you look at like the second half of that verse, lean on your understanding. What does that actually look like?

Right. Because I think sometimes I've experienced this too, or it's like, it's like, [00:19:00] we're like, Oh no, this is the right way. Like I trust God. But like, I also know it's the right way to like, how can those coexist? Right. Like, When we're not leading our own understanding, but we are trusting God.

Gina: And the Lord gave us reason. He gave us a mind. He doesn't intend for us to waste the mind he's given up. So reason is a good thing. But I think that when we lean on our own understanding, we imagine that we know everything that is needed to make a decision. So I could fool myself into thinking I, you know, do I, do I take this new job?

I have all the information I need. It's a great paying job. It's all these great things. So my understanding is like, Well, clearly it's the right path. But if I, if I'm seeking the Lord in prayer, I might feel just a little bit of unease because Jesus knows things that I don't know. So it's in situations like that, willing to say, you know what, not going to take it because clearly there's something I don't know.

that the [00:20:00] Lord is trying to tell me and I trust him. So, I mean, I've, I'm sure we both hold hard stories of people who turn down great, great opportunities and it seemed great and they realize later, Oh, I see what the Lord was doing. So certainly he's given us a mind to use, but leaning on our understanding is prioritizing.

Our understanding above a above what the Word of God says, which is always dangerous and be above how the Holy Spirit is leading through that peace

Jacqueline: Yeah.


Gina: I've talked to many people who are facing issues and many of them say, you know, I did kind of there was a red flag.

I just ignored it. There were and that doesn't mean that every heartache is the result of something that we ignored, but sometimes it does happen.

Jacqueline: I was just going to ask you, like, what does that feel like or look like? Right? And, and I, I'm, I'm thinking right now in the context, even like relationships, right? People who are, who are engaged and then, you know. And [00:21:00] I know your mom has said multiple times, like the Holy Spirit, she equates it to like a gut feeling, right?

Like rather than a feeling in your heart.

Um, so I'm curious what your thoughts are on that. And also too, I mean, the Bible says the heart is deceitful,

right? So people who say like, Oh, like my heart feels like this, or I feel it in my heart and my soul. Like, is that our hearts being deceitful? Like. How, like, how do we, how do we discern that?

Heh heh heh.

Gina: have an example, and it's a job related example, so not quite a relationship example. But growing up, you know, I grew up in New Jersey, and my dream was to move to Washington, D. C. I always wanted to move to Washington, D. C., work in politics, work in the halls of Congress. All this great stuff. So, you know, I go, I start my career, and I have the chance to interview for jobs in D.

C. And I interviewed for at least two, there might have been more, and one, both the interviews went well, one particularly went very well, but I just had this unease, and I knew the Lord was [00:22:00] saying, do not move here. And I was so angry. Because I was like, why? Lord, I really want to move 

here. This is all I wanted to do.

I really want to move here. 

Jacqueline: Heh heh How old were you when this was this? When was this? 

Gina: I was like in my late 20s,

Jacqueline: Okay.

Gina: maybe early 30s.

Maybe. Oh, I might not have shared it with you. Wow. Okay. It might've been before our super long, awesome talks on the phone. I mean, it was, it was definitely a couple of decades ago, not to age myself. Um, but I just knew that I had an unease.

And so I was like, I don't understand it, but okay. So I remember I pulled my hat out of the ring for one of the jobs. Um, I think the other one, they didn't want me anyway, so that worked out. Okay. But, but I, I just remember being really kind of. sad, maybe for lack of a better term. I was like sad. I was like, you know, I really want to do this.

I don't understand why I can't. So, 20 years later, I've never lived in D. C., [00:23:00] um, but I've actually never regretted it, either. And do I know why the Lord kept me out? I really don't. I mean, I know there's a lot of spirits at work in D. C., power, lust, I don't know what he was protecting me from. I really don't. I might not know till I get to heaven.

But, the Lord changed my heart, and now I have zero desire. to step foot in DC, let alone live in DC. So it's just one of those, and that was a situation because I was open to what the Holy Spirit was telling me. And that has to do with the, with the attitude of our hearts. Like if I had decided, you know what, this is what I'm doing, and God, you're going to have to make the best of it.

Jacqueline: Yeah.

Gina: don't know if he would have given me that, that inner, Sense of, Hey, this isn't what I want. But if our hearts are truly humble enough to say, I am willing to change what I do and what I think, if the Holy Spirit shows me the truth that is something different, then he will, he will show us. But in my case, it was just [00:24:00] a sense of this isn't, I had unease.

Jacqueline: This is so nuanced, but like, let's say someone, someone is seeking God's will. Right? Like they have a heart for God. They're really including him in their decision making. And let's say there are two good options, right? Like there's not necessarily like, like one option isn't morally wrong.


They both honor God. Let's say someone makes the quote unquote, like wrong decision. Is that even like Is that even a thing? And, and I mean, my pastor at my church the other Sunday, we're going through Genesis and we're going through the, the story of Joseph and he said something that was really interesting.

He's like, they're in Joseph's life and in our lives, he's like, there's only ever a plan a, . So I guess my question is like, what are your thoughts on that? If there are two options, both on or God, they're not necessarily like sinful. How do we go about navigating that? Right. And then looking back to like, if we're asking ourselves, Oh, like maybe I should have done made the other decision. Like.

Gina: I think we have to be careful not to limit [00:25:00] God to. Like, and what I mean by that is, am I going to mess up God's ultimate plan and will if I make this wrong decision, am I going to set off kilter, you know, the entire universe and change the direction of my life for, and in an irredeemable fashion. And if there, there is a situation where there's, Hey, two really good choices. We can pray, move forward with the best information that we have if we're not really feeling one thing or the other, and trust that the Lord will work it for his good. I don't know that I believe, I believe God's ultimate plan is a plan A, but we clearly make choices sometimes that are not the ones that God would make.

Like the idea, um, that everything that happens is God's will, I don't think we see that reflected in scripture because Scripture said that he wills that no one should perish, but I'll come to repentance. And we don't see that happening in the world. So clearly we have choices and we can make choices that, you know, sometimes are go against God's will.

But I know that's not what you're talking about. I know you're talking about a situation where there's two morally good choices. [00:26:00] And I believe this is again, where we have to step back and say, the Lord is so amazing that he can work things for good. And I look at like, I moved from New Jersey to Pennsylvania.

15 years, 15 years ago, in retrospect, and I, I haven't even told this to a lot of people. I don't think I should have done that. I, I think I made a poor choice at the time without seeking the Lord. Now, did he turn it into amazing things? He did. Oh my goodness. He did. He led me to a wonderful church. Like, but if I really looked back, I have a sense that that was not the best decision for me to make at that time.

Um, but it wasn't a morally wrong decision. And I think the Lord, I know the Lord, the scripture says he works all things together for good for those who love him and are called according to his purpose. And that doesn't just mean he works the perfect decisions together. He works all things. For good. So I think one thing that's important for is for us not to fall into this fear of 

I have to make the perfect decision.

And I lived in that [00:27:00] fear for a very, very long

time. 

Very long time. 

Oh, my. Yeah, I'm sure I still fall into that category sometimes like I have by no means arrived. But living in that fear, it paralyzes us.

And then it then if something happens, it's negative, we start to blame ourselves. So clearly, if I had done this, I had done this. And look, cool. We live in this world where bad things are going to happen. Like, we can't interpret every negative as, oh my, I did something terrible. We have a real enemy. You know, but through that all, the Lord still works his purposes.

Jacqueline: Yeah. I know. What was it? You said this to me last week, again, when we have these discussions all the time. Um, you said that, we always think of the potential outcome or the outcome that could have happened from another choice, right, without ever really knowing, like, if that's the actual outcome, right?

But in our minds, it's like, we think that if we had made this other decision, like, this would have happened, but we don't. And I think [00:28:00] it's so, I mean, it's so easy for our minds to latch onto that, right? And think, oh, like, had we only done this, like, this would have been the outcome. And I think that way of thinking too, I mean, you mentioned it earlier, really, it does paralyze us because then it's like we become so afraid to make a decision that we don't move at all.

Um, and that's certainly not God's will for our lives. Like we are to exercise our, our free will and take action and live our lives. But, um, there's definitely a lot of comfort in knowing that, like you said, like he will work all things together for our good and 

his glory. Um, 

Gina: Mm 

Jacqueline: And also to Gina, like, I know I've read a lot of, uh, different perspectives on like the are good part.

Right. And I think like, it's really easy for people to kind of take that like directly, like from that book and say, Oh yeah, it's going to work out for, for my good, my good meaning some type of like material blessing or, you know, and, and I think like the more I. I read that scripture, and like, the more I look it in, like, the context, it's to make us [00:29:00] more like Christ, right?

It's not necessarily to, like, improve us in some, like, material fashion. It's like, are we becoming more like God?

Gina: Yeah, and I, I think yes, because that is, that is ultimately we are to be conformed into the image of Christ. So if I say, well, this is going to work to my good because I'm going to get a huge raise, that's maybe a misinterpretation of that scripture. At the same time, scripture does say that Satan comes to steal, kill, and destroy.

So anything in life that is coming to steal, kill, and destroy is not from God. So we can assume that working something for our good. Means it will be the opposite of stealing, killing, and destroying. But it will be something that is life-giving. But we, we have to be very careful not to fall into the trap of, well, this means I'm gonna get a, you know, a, a $10 million mansion on a lake.

Um, well, would God bless people with that? Absolutely, he will. So they can use it to bless others. But, you know, we have to be careful of, we don't wanna add to scripture according to the [00:30:00] context that we like. We need to take scripture for what it says.

Jacqueline: Right. Right, right. Another verse too, Gina, that's always given me a lot of comfort. Um, is this whole like, well, first of all, the whole concept of God's protection, right. And that God like commands his angels to keep us, to bear us up., aNd when we dwell on Christ and you mentioned this in one of your, your blog posts, God issues a command to his angels on our behalf. So for someone who has never even like thought of angels, right. Or this concept, like, can you just do like a little, like Maybe angel, angel 101 

debrief foundational

Gina: It might have to 

be remedial angels because I am not an expert on this at all either,

but scripture, 

Jacqueline: Let's do it.

Gina: but scripture does say that angels are ministering servants sent to, I'm going to, I'm going to botch the verse, but something like sent to minister to those who are the heir of salvation.

Don't quote me on that, but the angels are very real. And they are sent to minister to us and to assist us. So, the idea, like, they're not some esoteric, you know, thing floating in the sky. It's like, angels are [00:31:00] real beings, just as demons are real beings. And one, I love the scripture in Hebrews that says, you know, don't be forgetful to entertain strangers, because some have entertained angels unawares.

Like, we don't know who we're talking to on the street that literally could be an angel, but they are real and they do act as ministering spirits to protect us. I know my mom, she might've even shared this on the podcast, had a very real experience being with an angel, protecting her from a car crash

when she was, me, remind me of the story and for listeners, I don't think she, she didn't share this on the podcast. I heard, I heard the story before, but I don't remember it.

Okay. And she is better at telling it. So I hope I get everything straight. But she was, we were in high school and we were on our way to a sports game and she was following us in a different car. And the lane had gone from two lanes going in the same direction to single lanes and opposite directions.

But my mom was still in the left lane coming, like going towards oncoming traffic. So it's like,

Oh 

shoot. Oh shoot. So all I, all I know is that her [00:32:00] car, almost like without even her knowing it, like just moved off the side of the road. It was the, it was the most amazing, like, I mainly remember being in the car thinking, Oh, mom's like, that's not where she's supposed to be.

And then she was fine. And I don't think she actively moved the steering wheel. So she will tell it better than I can, but angels are very, very real. And they are sent to minister to us. So I think we, we, no, we don't want to pray to angels. You know, they're not our savior. Um, but they are absolutely ministering spirits who can come to our aid.

Jacqueline: God sends, yeah, like, his angels to also just protect us and watch over us, like, as we're

Gina: Right.

Jacqueline: Doing things and and one thing I've always admired about you to Gina and like you and I have talked about this many a time Is I mean the nature of being a mother like all moms worry, right?

And I know like you have done many solo travel trips and I know it Marianne, you know does worry My mom is a worrier but I guess my question for you is like How has your faith [00:33:00] helped you in doing things that otherwise might, like, just otherwise are scary, right? Like, be that, like, a solo trip or a big hike or, you know, some, like, medical intervention.

Like how, how has that changed the way you approach things?

Gina: Mm hmm. I think. A, I refuse to live in fear. It doesn't mean I don't feel fear, but I have made a decision in my life that I will not live in fear. I will not be dictated by fear. I will not make decisions based on fear. So I think that has helped.

Um, and then when you start, when you step out and start to do that, I know you've done travel as well.

So when you step out and start to do that and you do it once it becomes easier, you know, and it becomes easier after that. But I think the big thing is. I will not live in fear. And you know, one of my favorite scriptures is, is you will keep him in perfect peace whose, whose mind has stayed on you, meaning, meaning God.

And that's an active, like that involves our active participation. [00:34:00] So, and I've been, my, I've been thinking about this a lot lately when I've been feeling fearful about something, I'm like, man, am I really? Are my eyes really fixed on Jesus? Because if they are, I am at peace.

Um, but I, I, I do think a big part of it is that I've, I made a decision a long time ago.

I'm like, I, I just won't look in fear.

Jacqueline: Yeah. 

I know. I admire that 

Gina: not how God wants us to live. Oh, go ahead. 

Sorry. 

Jacqueline: No, that's because that's something I always, I've always admired about you

Gina: Yeah,

Jacqueline: is no matter like what circumstance or just like, Yeah, you, you, you dictate, like, you talk to your feelings, right? Like, you

Gina: I do. I do. And please, like, I hope listeners don't think that I've in any way arrived. There are a lot of things I still deal with that. You know, someone might look at me and be like, Oh my, she's totally letting fear control her. But I, I really strive not to. But I've learned that my feelings, You know, I am in charge of my feelings.

My feelings do not dictate my life. They

won't. I tell my feelings what to do. And the feelings are important. They're a gauge. They help us [00:35:00] understand things. Like they're, I don't want to say that, you know, they're not important. But they're a really bad master.

Jacqueline: No. So, so true. I know. That's why, again, that's why I feel like, I mean, I just love you as a person and I think the world of you, but 

that's why I love, 

that's why I love our phone calls so much is because you just. remind me of that truth. And that's why it's so important to be in community and be among other believers who do just remind you of truth.

Because when we're isolated too, like that's when the enemy attacks and you know, we get in our minds and we go down those rabbit holes and I'll just, I mean, if, if I could share some of the messages that I've sent you, like people would be like, Jack is crazy, 

but I'll just be like, Gina, like, like this happened, like, am I okay?

Or like, you're just like, you're just my rock. Um, you and your mom have just been my rocks to just like remind me of truth, um, and it's just been such a blessing. But one other thing too, I wanted to cover Gina. So you also had this incredible post again, this is me Tuesday night, just going through your blog, The Purposed Heart.

Again, I will link it in the show notes, but you speak about dry seasons or you spoke about [00:36:00] dry 

seasons and every believer is going to go through a dry season, at 

least one, right? Probably 

multiple in in their lifetime. And. You had a really good post on, some good questions to ask to help determine, like, if there is something that's on our parts, right, that needs changing, um, or if it's like a dry season is just a time where, you know, God is simply just calling us to, to trust him more and like, not rely on our, our feelings, right?

The theme of this conversation. So. What are some of those questions, and they don't have to align to exactly what you wrote in your post, but whatever comes

to mind. 

Gina: I'm trying to remember what I wrote in that post. 

So that's 

really 

good. 

Jacqueline: long time ago, so don't

Gina: Okay, I think that one was a while ago. I think, I think one of the questions I might have written was, Have I been obedient to the last thing that I felt the Lord was telling me to do? Um, and what I mean by that, and I credit, um, Oswald Chambers, my utmost for his highest, one of the best devotionals ever written, um, for talking a lot [00:37:00] about that.

Have I, you know, have I, have I obeyed the last thing the Lord told me? And what I mean by that is if I'm really feeling like I'm just in a season, like in a, in a spiritual funk, like what's going on. But it, and again, this isn't like, am I being good enough? But if the Lord has specifically said, Hey, forgive this person. And I'm like, yeah, no, then there's a chance that maybe if I forgive that person, that dry season will become fruitful, you know, like that. So I think one of the important things is, okay, have, is there something that the Lord's been trying to gently convict me of that I have not been receptive to?

Jacqueline: Mm hmm.

Gina: Um, and so I, I think that's, I'm trying to recall the other questions, but that's the big one that comes to mind, but, but I do think on dry sea, dry seasons, they shouldn't scare us like they shouldn't, and they also shouldn't be like an automatic, what am I doing wrong?

And I think, you know, you mentioned I'm a runner, you're a runner now. Congratulations. Welcome to the club. Um, but you know, for, for those of us who are [00:38:00] runners or any type of athlete, like, Sometimes we have super great workouts, and we go, we could conquer the world, and it's the most amazing thing, you know, the sun is shining, the flowers are smelling, and everything is lovely, and then some days are just awful, and it's like, I can't get through this stupid workout, is this doing any good, and that's kind of like a dry season, like, we might, but those, those awful workouts are just as important as the great ones.

Because without those awful ones, we probably don't have the great ones. So those dry seasons, if we continue just to stay close to Jesus, just persevere, stay close to him, don't abandon our, you know, what does scripture say? Cast not away your confidence because it has great recompense of reward. Don't cast away everything we've learned in those dry seasons, but be willing.

And scripture doesn't promise us that we're never going to have them. The scripture never says. There won't be tough times. It says just the opposite, but we know that we have a shepherd who walks with us.

And, and so I also think worship in those times is [00:39:00] super, super, super, super important. You know, look at the old Testament when Israelites went to war, the worshipers went first, 

right?

Like, so there's a lot to be said for that. So I think in those dry times, A, don't look at it as what have I done wrong, but also say, Is there something the Lord's been gently stirring in my spirit that I have not yet been responsive to? 

Also, don't freak out. It's not Abnormal to have a dry season stay close to Jesus and spend time worshiping

Jacqueline: Yeah. What does worship look like for you? 

Gina: I think it looks different to every person and I don't mean that in some like individual everyone has their own religion um, but I read this great book and I can't remember the title and it had to do with how Different people, uh, you know, worship in different ways. To me it's music because I'm a

musician, so I love just turning on music and singing and worshiping, playing the piano.

To some people it might mean painting. It might be like, I'm going [00:40:00] to draw God's creation and reflect on his goodness. To some people it might mean writing. It, it, you know, let me, let me recount God's promises and write them down. Some it might be prayer. I think there's no one way that's like, this is the right way to worship.

but worship will always elevate God above everything else. Worship is not about us. And that's one of my, I could do a whole podcast on that. You know, there, there's a lot in the current worship,

Jacqueline: Yep.

Gina: not to go in a soapbox. Worship is not about me. Worship is about Jesus.

Jacqueline: Yep. So true. So 

Gina: yeah. Get on the soapbox. Well, I think it's really important.

Okay. My two second soapbox. Because I am in worship ministry, it's really important that we look at the songs we're singing and are they theologically sound? Do they align with scripture or do they just make me feel good about me? Because me feeling good about me doesn't really do a lot to elevate Jesus, unless it's me feeling good about me because of what Jesus has done for me.

Jacqueline: One other thing you mentioned in that blog post was, you know, spending time [00:41:00] in the Word and in Prayer. And. You know, I've found that days where I disregard like my morning time with God and I just jump right into the day or the days that I do feel the most anxious, right?

And I really do have to set aside like time in the morning. I don't know if you're like, are you a morning prayer person time? I mean, everyone has different schedules, but for me at least, like I have my, my Charles Stanley devotional. Have you ever, do you have that one?

Gina: I 

don't 

Jacqueline: that 

Gina: I've listened to his podcasts a lot,

Jacqueline: Yeah. It's a really. It's a really great one. My mom and I both have it. And then we also have the, um, I forgot the other one. It's called, it's like Jesus calling. I think at Linda actually gave that to my mom.

Um, but they're just really, they're really great devotionals. Um, so I like to read through those. And then I always like, you know, I do go through scripture, but, one thing I struggle with Gina, and I told you this, but I'm really trying to read the Bible, like.

to back, right? like.

page to page, Like in order. And, you know, I love, I love books and I know we shouldn't really have like favorite books, but like I love the Psalms, right? And I [00:42:00] love the book of John. And when I get to like Lamentations and you know, some of these other books, like I, that I think like I won't quote unquote, like get a lot from, like, I just kind of tend to like.

You know, I don't give them as much attention as I probably should. So for someone who, like, really wants to get into the Word what advice do you have for them on, I guess, chapters that, or books rather that are more dry? Does that make sense?

Gina: Mm. Yeah. Well, first, I probably wouldn't start with those books. Like if you're new to scripture, start with the book of John,

maybe talk, go into Galatians. Yeah. The gospel. So that's a great place to start. Um, but I do hear you when you're going through Leviticus. Sometimes I'm like, Lord. Why did you do this?

Like, really? Is this needed? But I think, A, it is because all scripture is God breathed. So, I approach those books with, hey, this is the inspired word of God. So, regardless of whether I think I'm getting something out of it, I am, because I'm putting the word of God in my heart. But also, there's a [00:43:00] reason all those books are in there.

And I'm by no means a Bible scholar, but if we look at the law in Leviticus, we look at, we see all, all the things that God was like, here's what you have to do to be in right standing. And then we see how Jesus was like, I fulfill that you are free from those demands. So, I mean, in a sense, it fills me with gratitude that, well, thank you, Lord, that I don't have to go kill a goat ever or a lamb every three days.

Sorry. I know the Bible scholars are 

going to be cringing like, that's not what it says. Um, so, and when I'm looking at, you know, I'm reading through the tabernacle and oh, the specifications, it just tells me what a detailed God we serve. Like, he cares about, there's a reason for all of that. Oh, when I'm reading through Chronicles and like, genealogies that I just get so lost in.

But those names are important. You know, it's the importance of our names and the importance that God places on that. So I think what I would say to people is, first of all, don't start with those books. Don't start with them. And if [00:44:00] you want to read them through like you're doing front to back, that's awesome.

What I have found is I've done a little bit of those and a little bit of the New Testament in the same day. So I don't get completely

like, yeah, overwhelmed. Cause I'll just be like, Oh my. Um, and then just recognize that, Hey, I might not understand all this, but there, there is a reason the Lord has it in there.

So I can trust that he's going to minister to me. Even if I don't understand it, and then if you're super ambitious, I mean, there's commentaries on it that I admit, I have never read a commentary on Chronicles, but I'm sure it's there. So, so,

Jacqueline: There's, I, I did just get, I got a new Bible, um, not too long ago and I love how it does, it does have commentary on like, you know, just different books and, and I, I do appreciate that because I think especially if someone's new to reading the Bible, right? Like it does provide. Helpful context that is 

more like easy to understand, you know, it's like more digestible, especially if you're going through more challenging books.

Um, do you know, I'm sure you've heard of Lisa Turkhurst too,

right? [00:45:00] She has, um, she has a great, um, Bible study on trust, um, that I'm going through right now. So I think like, yeah, studies have helped me too. And I also, Gina, have you heard of, um, what is her name? Paige Brown.

Gina: I don't think so.

Jacqueline: You would like her. she's based in Nashville, and she does, um, she's going through the Book of Ruth right now, but she's so funny.


She'll post her, her Bible study, her weekly Bible study on YouTube, but she only leaves it up for like seven days, and then she takes it down 

because she doesn't want, she doesn't want, like, I guess the fame that accompanies, like, she's, she's 

just a such a great teacher, 

um, but she'll only leave it up for seven days, and she takes it down, but she's been going through the Book of Ruth, and she's just an incredible, um, Just, just teacher, but I share that because, like, there are so many different ways, right, of, of, of understanding stories, you know, apart from just reading the Bible, which should be your foundation and should be what you do first, um, but just to help, like, lend, like, further perspective and further insight into what you are [00:46:00] reading, 

Gina: Yeah, absolutely. I, I totally agree. I think, I mean, the Lord has given a lot of people teaching gifts and they have used that to, to expound on scripture. And, but like you said, we always go back to scripture as the truth. So if we read something and then we read scripture, like, uh, 

I don't know if that lines up.

We always take scripture as the truth, but I have used many studies over the years to 

help me further understand scripture, and they've been a huge blessing to me.

Jacqueline: What's been one of your favorite studies?

Gina: You know, I really like David Guzik. I don't know if I'm pronouncing his name right. G U 

Z I

K. He is on, there's a resource called blueletterbible.

org. Um, and he has some really great commentary. You can, you can go and search out his commentaries. I really enjoy that. Um, I'm totally drawn by, oh, Priscilla Shire. I like some of her teachings. It's like 

different topics. I have different kind of different people that I'm like, Oh, that blessed me and that blessed me.

Um, 

but yeah, but I'm a, I'm a big fan of saying, okay, who are these teachers that God has called that can help me [00:47:00] understand a while again, always, and even my pastor growing up, he always said that he's like, you measure everything I say. against the Word of God. And if I say something wrong, you go to the Word of God, and that's what you believe.

I'm like, yeah.

Jacqueline: That's very true. And that just reminded me too, I know we're coming up on time, but one other thing I wanted um, your thoughts on too, for listeners who, , may have grown up Christian, but let's say we're really disappointed, um, from like the faults or sins of a pastor, right? Or someone who they really admired in the church who fell short, right?

And they had them on a pedestal and because of that, experience or even like just a, you know, a family experience, like something that went awry. And now they look at God through a different lens. Right. And they're saying, well, you know, if this person fell short, like, how do I know this whole Jesus thing is real? What advice would you have for that person? And certainly, you know, there's been a lot of like, like Ravi Zacharias and, you know, so many, um, once like well respected teachers that have fallen short. And again, like Jesus talks about this in the Bible, but. I would [00:48:00] love for you to just share, you know, with 

Gina: yeah, 

Jacqueline: your, your perspective and your thoughts on that.

Gina: yeah. And I've been blessed by Ravi Zacharias teaching. I've taken some of his courses, so my heart hurt when I learned of that. And I, I don't want to, I want to recognize that, especially if it's someone that's been very important to you growing up or, you know, a pastor figure, a parent, something like that, there, there's, there's deep hurt there that is understandable.

Um, I, I would say that A, we all, Sin. We all sin. None of us, like, we all sin. It is heartbreaking when it's someone who it's, it's like, okay, but that brought down so many people. But I think that goes back to what you said. We should look to Jesus for our pedestal. That's who our example is. We should never, ever hang our faith on the actions of another person.

So, I don't care who you can mention to me in my life. If they fell [00:49:00] right now, I'm going to be heartbroken. I would be shocked. But my faith isn't my faith because they, because I thought they were a good person. And I think we need to be very careful not to base our faith on what someone else does or does not do, 

but to look for Jesus.

And it's a reminder of we all sin. We, and I also think in the church, and there's a great podcaster who I love named Julie Slattery. Um, she has a ministry called authentic intimacy, but she talks a lot about this issue. She really talks a lot about this issue. And I think, well, not to get on another soapbox, sometimes the church has become a place where pastors aren't free to share that they're struggling with something.

So that, because it's like, Oh, they're supposed to be perfect. So they're not able to, and not the, I mean, they're responsible for their choices. I'm not discounting that, but when we create a space where you're not allowed to get help if you're struggling, it makes the downfall that much more dramatic [00:50:00] because all of a sudden it's a secret and secrets, they have a way of coming out.

They just, they never stay secret forever. But I would say, A, I, I recognize the hurt that that brings. It is a deep hurt. But we must put our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, and he is the one. That's why he died. Because we mess up.

Jacqueline: Yeah.

Gina: So, and I always caution everybody, never, like, just don't put people on a pedestal. Because you will get disappointed. 

You will. It doesn't mean You can't admire people, 

but they're people just like us.

Jacqueline: Yeah. So true. 

I feel like, yeah, 

we've come full circle 

Gina: Yeah. 

Jacqueline: our initial, initial conversation. Well,

Gina, I know we could, well, I'm going to have you back on for a part two and 

then part three. We're going to do a whole series. We'll do a 

soapbox series, but 

this is definitely a good first start. 

Gina: This is awesome.

Jacqueline: I love you so 

Gina: is awesome. I love you too. 

Jacqueline: and your wisdom. Um, I mentioned your blog, The Purposed Heart, which I'll be linking in the 

Gina: Oh, thank 

Jacqueline: but 

Gina: I have to give you [00:51:00] an updated, uRL, because since I got married my URL has 

changed and we're in 

the process of migrating. 

Jacqueline: Do you know what's so 

funny? When I 

was writing, cause I always like, I'll have like, you know, my little outline titles like Gina Di Iorio.

And I was like, wait, Gina Pope, even, even in my phone, I think you're still, I think you're still last name is still Di Iorio. I should probably

update that, but, uh, we'll update it at some point. But beyond that, Gina, um, is that pretty much the primary place where listeners can find you? Is there anything else you'd like to share that I should be including in show notes?

Gina: No, that is the primary place that folks can find me. Right

Jacqueline: Beautiful. Awesome. 

My last question for you, Gina, and this 

is my favorite one to ask, I don't know if you're 

expecting it. 

Gina: Oh, 

dear. 

Jacqueline: is. What does being well and strong mean to you?

Gina: To me, it means it's multidimensional. It's being healthy in every area of our lives. So in spirit, in mind, in body, in emotions, in [00:52:00] relationships, we are not one dimensional beings. So if we're talking about being well and strong, we have to look at all those dimensions. And I, am I pursuing health in all those dimensions, in my relationships, in my walk with the Lord, in my, yeah, in my physical health?

How am I pursuing health in all those ways? Because if we leave one way, unattended. We might be well in all these areas, but we won't be strong overall.

Jacqueline: So good. I love that. Well, Gina, this has been so fun. I'm going to 

have you 

Gina: awesome. Yes. 

Jacqueline: soon. I'll let you know when it goes live. But yeah, I'm 

really excited to share this with everyone.

Gina: Thank you so much. It's been so awesome talking with you, my awesome cousin.


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Jacqueline Genova

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